Unban request for [FL:RP] Mike

[Mike]

At the end of the day, I respect you all and I'm not here to cause hassle. I just want to play and enjoy Fearless much like every other member.

I must say this ban I believe does not warrant a perm and you all know that I'm not the type to intentionally break rules.

Please on that note, just consider this punishment, is it really needed?

[Mike]

I would also like to add that I've spent a lot of money on this game, even though it isn't about that but that's not the point, 450+ hours of my life have gone into this game, building a clan, building friendships... I am a dedicated player and also a loyal member of the community, although some of you may hold personal grudges against me, I think removing me permanently from the community is unjust. I've already stated my final warning was void because of soul so i shouldn't even have been banned because of the last chance and should only have received the same punishment as the rest of the offenders.

Please, look st it from that perspective, the final warning was not valid, so should I really receive a perm ban for a violation of 12.7?

I've only had a small pick of previous bans and I consider fearless to be a large part of my entertainment outside work.

But when you look at it like this, the whole case does not make sense..

- Final warning received for 2nd ban - DDoS joke
- Final warning REMOVED by Soul as Hitman also joked about DDoS and was not even punished, this was witnessed by multiple staff members - are staff exempt from the rules? 
- 3rd ban was for backseat admin of which a final warning was then applied, this does not make sense for a third ban, considering the last one was completely removed.
- now been banned for 12.7 and received a perm due to a final warning

The final warning makes no sense being applied on a 3rd ban for backseat admin, am I not correct on thinking players normally receive final warnings after around 10 bans? It may have been agreed by the staff team, but on what grounds? The previous final warning was removed so what grounds were there to add a final warning onto a third ban. 

It makes no sense

Thank you for your time, goodnight.

[Mike]

The player, Mike, was on his last chance. A last chance does not mean that every minor incident (which this case is an example of), will get you permanently banned. A last chance means: If you are blatantly breaking a major rule again, you will get perm'd. I'm personally against last chances. I don't understand why some people can be banned 13 times and some only 5, but that is another discussion. He should at least have received the same punishment as the players that also participated in the roleplay.

I would also like to highlight the above point stated by the owner of the community as a perfectly valid reason, coinciding with mine as to why this is not a valid perm.

[SoulRipper]

The player, Mike, is known as an outspoken person. If he thinks something is unjust, he will speak out and start a discussion about it. He will try to convince the admin that something was not justified. This might be getting on the nerves of the admins, but should certainly be tolerated. I believe that the freedom of speech needs to be respected. In a community, there are 'difficult' people to deal with. People that question facts, that collect evidence, that are against some team members. We should be strong enough to not get worried about that. The freedom of speech is a crucial thing and those who are having a different opinion should be okay. Look, I'm not saying the team is censoring people, this is just a reply on the rumours that Mike collects evidence and a reply on a similar unban request.

My summed up opinions regarding Mike:

- The last warning was given on the 'backseat administration' ban.
-> I don't think a last warning can be given for this rule break.

- He's an outspoken player, but should not get in trouble because of that.
-> It doesn't state in the rules that you aren't allowed to record admins and use the video material to prove a point. We allow players to record players all the time, so gathering evidence about an admin should be okay. I'm saying this just to clear this up. His temper can not get him banned.

- He's a good roleplayer in general.
-> He's been awarded 5 times for his roleplay. He's not a minge that blatently breaks the rules.

- The last warning does not make sense
-> Why does he get a last warning on his 3th ban? (ban 66911 was revoked) Why do other players get banned 13 times before a permanent ban is hand out? This is lacking consistency. Why would you get a last warning for backseat administrating, while other people get away with it for a day or a blacklist from OOC.

- The punishments given on this case are inconsistent
-> The other players involved got away with a ban for a day, while they have, apart from suggesting the idea, actively participated. Why is there such a gap between 1 day and a permanent ban? Bearing in mind that this rulebreak was not serious enough to use 'the last warning'.

- The rule break wasn't blatant
-> In real life, riot shield test has been done as well. We've got broken riotshields on the server. While they should protect you against bullets, they don't do much here. We can not assume that Mike was aware of this. The shooting after the damage was taken, was a rule break, however. Not only by Mike though, but by those who participated.

Sources used:

[Image: 4525657121.jpg]

STEAM_0:1:49343679, 15 bans before permanent ban

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_assembly

[Avgar]

The main question of this case is: Was this (1.1)friendly fire or not?

They have been roleplaying as SRU and are doing a training by shooting on riotshields. (1.2)CityRP does not have any non-lethal training guns and so they have been limited to real weapons. The (1.3) riotshield is bugged, it is taking damage while it shouldn't. They were roleplaying a training so I don't think this is blatant friendly fire. I do think the roleplay background could have been taken more care of, for example by making a training range. Not just in the Nexus Garage.

According to some YouTube videos posted in this thread, (1.4)this is something that has been done in real life as well. That way we can't say that this is very unrealistic.

(1.1). Whether or not those involved wanted to purposefully commit friendly fire is besides the point. It is full known that a player that does not know about a rule or isn't breaking a rule intentionally will still have the rule being enforced on them.
(1.2). The fact that CityRP does not have non-lethal training weapons does not give players an excuse to pretend that the guns they do have are non-lethal. If we allow this to happen then this shakes the very foundations of FearRP on the server - who has a real gun and who has a 'fake' gun, where would we draw the line?
(1.3). Even if it is a bug, once the players involved found out, which was either a few seconds in after getting shot at or starting the whole experiment, knowing that the shields do not block damage, they can't continue the exercise. Using bugs as an excuse when committing a rule break should not be done.
(1.4). The videos posted display men getting shot at behind riot shields. That's a fact. None of them display men getting shot at behind riot shields, which fail, yet continuing to be shot at in burst/automatic fire while the men themselves call out their injuries.

Facts about the case:
- (2.1) This was a roleplay training, not blatantly shooting eachother.
- (2.2) The riotshield is bugged, hence why damage has been taken.
- (2.3) There is no alternative to use regarding weapons.
- (2.4) It wasn't exactly unrealistic.
- (2.5) The location and scenery of the RP has not been taken care of.

(2.1) It does not matter whether a rule is broken in a roleplay situation or without a proper roleplay environment, it is still a rule being broken.
(2.2) See 1.3 above for my reply to this.
(2.3) See 1.2 above for my reply to this.
(2.4) See 1.4 above for my reply to this.
(2.5) True. This part alone would not warrant a suspension, neither is the reason for the ban.

I think those involved can only be blamed for the fact that there was no proper training range and that the roleplay was most likely lacking a background story. This is a minor rulebreak and a blacklist from SRU should have been the highest possible punishment for this. A permanent ban is unjustified in my opinion, the short bans for the other players involved should be undone.

The ban reason states: 'Promoting breaking of rule 12.7, breaking FearRP by allowing himself to be shot at behind a riot shield'
'Promoting breaking of rule 12.7' - promoting rule breakage, which is the rule under Misc. Rules 19.2 is not a minor offense.
'Breaking FearRP by allowing himself to be shot at behind a riot shield' - this has not been mentioned once in the unban request. You cannot deny the fact that it is beyond unrealistic to instruct to be shot at and then knowingly keep getting shot at, taking damage, coming close to death. Yes, this is a semi realistic server, yes, they were aware of their health, however, if you were to recall when the weapon pack complete with attachments was released, several players were testing those weapons out, injuring eachother, (while being aware of their health), for which they were suspended from the servers.
The permanent ban is in place because the two rules broken above would warrant a ban. Since Mike is on his last chance, that ban is permanent.

The player, Mike, was on his last chance. A last chance does not mean that every minor incident (which this case is an example of), will get you permanently banned. A last chance means: If you are blatantly breaking a major rule again, you will get perm'd. I'm personally against last chances. I don't understand why some people can be banned 13 times and some only 5, but that is another discussion. He should at least have received the same punishment as the players that also participated in the roleplay.

A last chance means, and has always, to my knownledge, meant, that if a player receives a punishment that warrants a ban, said ban is then made permanent. If only so called 'major' rule breaks were to warrant permanent bans players would go well above and beyond 13 bans before receving a permanent suspension.

To summarize: I think the permanent ban is unjustified and is not based on proper reasons. I do understand that the team decided to ban him, I'm not trying to undermine their judgement, although after viewing the YouTube video, I think a ban was not the correct punishment. I would like to see the bans being removed from record and a warning being given not to roleplay a training anymore without a proper background/scenery. I do not share any interest with Mike or the admin team, so my view is purely objective.

The permanent ban is in place because Mike was on his last chance. Breaking a rule that deserves a ban while said player is on their last chance has always warranted a permanent ban. This case is no different.

(3.1). At the end of the day, I respect you all and I'm not here to cause hassle. I just want to play and enjoy Fearless much like every other member.

(3.2). I must say this ban I believe does not warrant a perm and you all know that I'm not the type to intentionally break rules.

(3.3). Please on that note, just consider this punishment, is it really needed?

(3.1). Just like every other member, you are subject to the same terms and conditions, whether it's with the rights and freedoms you have or rules being enforced on you.
(3.2). It has happened countless times that players, who do not intentionally break rules, have broken them. Have they been excused from the rule being enforced on them for that simple fact? No. This case is no different.
(3.3). Each case sets a precedent for the future. Every case up until now, where a player has broken a rule that warrants a suspension on their last chance has ended with the player in question being permanently suspended from the servers. If we make an exception here, we'll need to review and make exceptions on every other case to do with last chances.

I would also like to add that I've spent a lot of money on this game, even though it isn't about that but that's not the point, 450+ hours of my life have gone into this game, building a clan, building friendships... I am a dedicated player and also a loyal member of the community, although some of you may hold personal grudges against me, I think removing me permanently from the community is unjust. I've already stated my final warning was void because of soul so i shouldn't even have been banned because of the last chance and should only have received the same punishment as the rest of the offenders.

You are correct, it isn't about that, therefore no matter how many friendships you build, no matter how much time you put into the game or how much money you donate, you are to be treated on even ground with every other player. If a player with only a fraction of your wealth (that being friendships, hours and money spent) was in your situation they would be treated in exactly the same way. This case, just like every other valid case, is not personal.

Please, look st it from that perspective, the final warning was not valid, so should I really receive a perm ban for a violation of 12.7?

We have not ackowledged the fact that the final warning was not valid. On top of that, you are not receiving a permanent ban for a violation of 12.7. The ban reason states: 'Promoting breaking of rule 12.7, breaking FearRP by allowing himself to be shot at behind a riot shield', which is not one, but several rules being broken at the same time. As far back as I can remember it has always been that players who commit a rule violation that warrants a ban has that ban extended to being permanent.

But when you look at it like this, the whole case does not make sense..

- Final warning received for 2nd ban - DDoS joke
- (4.1). Final warning REMOVED by Soul as Hitman also joked about DDoS and was not even punished, this was witnessed by multiple staff members - are staff exempt from the rules?
- (4.2). 3rd ban was for backseat admin of which a final warning was then applied, this does not make sense for a third ban, considering the last one was completely removed.
- (4.3). now been banned for 12.7 and received a perm due to a final warning

(4.1). The final warning was not removed because a staff member was also joking about DDoS. This is what happened: you were permanently banned for joking to DDoS a staff member. A ban, which was lifted as several staff members were joking about DDoS'ing each other's mother's life supports. However, since the offense committed was a breach of the TOS a final warning was placed on you. Which, you, yourself, agreed to. After you were banned for backseat administration, because of a communication mishap, your previous last chance was void and instead moved on to the newest ban.
(4.2). My reply to 4.1 covers this. The final warning was not removed, per say, it was moved from the previous ban because of a communication mishap.
(4.3). See the section above this one for an explanation on why you were not banned for breaking rule 12.7, but several other rules.

The final warning makes no sense being applied on a 3rd ban for backseat admin, am I not correct on thinking players normally receive final warnings after around 10 bans? It may have been agreed by the staff team, but on what grounds? The previous final warning was removed so what grounds were there to add a final warning onto a third ban.

My replies 4.1 through 4.3 covers this. The final warning was transferred because of a communication mishap and certain staff not being aware that the final warning is in place.

The player, Mike, was on his last chance. A last chance does not mean that every minor incident (which this case is an example of), will get you permanently banned. A last chance means: If you are blatantly breaking a major rule again, you will get perm'd. I'm personally against last chances. I don't understand why some people can be banned 13 times and some only 5, but that is another discussion. He should at least have received the same punishment as the players that also participated in the roleplay.

I would also like to highlight the above point stated by the owner of the community as a perfectly valid reason, coinciding with mine as to why this is not a valid perm.

I have answered this above, but I will repost my answer here for ease of reading:

A last chance means, and has always, to my knownledge, meant, that if a player receives a punishment that warrants a ban, said ban is then made permanent. If only so called 'major' rule breaks were to warrant permanent bans players would go well above and beyond 13 bans before receving a permanent suspension.

The player, Mike, is known as an outspoken person. If he thinks something is unjust, he will speak out and start a discussion about it. He will try to convince the admin that something was not justified. This might be getting on the nerves of the admins, but should certainly be tolerated. I believe that the freedom of speech needs to be respected. In a community, there are 'difficult' people to deal with. People that question facts, that collect evidence, that are against some team members. We should be strong enough to not get worried about that. The freedom of speech is a crucial thing and those who are having a different opinion should be okay. Look, I'm not saying the team is censoring people, this is just a reply on the rumours that Mike collects evidence and a reply on a similar unban request.

Mike, as he is, is perfectly fine. Neither the ban itself, nor the way this unban request is being handled state anything about Mike personally. It is not personal. Furthermore, I do not see any evidence of him getting on the nerves of admins, nor his freedom of speech being disrespected. Whether Mike collects evidence or not is besides the purpose and point of this suspension, nor does it have to do with this unban request. The way I see it is: regardless of what a person Mike is, he is to be and is treated equally.

- The last warning was given on the 'backseat administration' ban.
-> I don't think a last warning can be given for this rule break.

- The last warning does not make sense
-> Why does he get a last warning on his 3th ban? (ban 66911 was revoked) Why do other players get banned 13 times before a permanent ban is hand out? This is lacking consistency. Why would you get a last warning for backseat administrating, while other people get away with it for a day or a blacklist from OOC.

Please see my replies to 4.1 through 4.3 as to why the last chance is valid.

- He's an outspoken player, but should not get in trouble because of that.
-> It doesn't state in the rules that you aren't allowed to record admins and use the video material to prove a point. We allow players to record players all the time, so gathering evidence about an admin should be okay. I'm saying this just to clear this up. His temper can not get him banned.

Nowhere in this unban request, nor the reason of ban, is it stated that Mike's temper is what is getting him banned. Concerning recording admins, I would even encourage doing so, so that any possible abuse isn't sweeped under the rug because of insufficient evidence and so that invalid and biased reports of administrators abusing their powers, being disrespectful in a simple 'he says - she says' type of manner would be kept to a minimum.

- He's a good roleplayer in general.
-> He's been awarded 5 times for his roleplay. He's not a minge that blatently breaks the rules.

Whether a player is a minge that blatently breaks rules or a respected community member, every single person is to be treated equally. What if a player with zero RP points was in his place?

- The punishments given on this case are inconsistent
-> The other players involved got away with a ban for a day, while they have, apart from suggesting the idea, actively participated. Why is there such a gap between 1 day and a permanent ban? Bearing in mind that this rulebreak was not serious enough to use 'the last warning'.

They are inconsistent for several reasons:
1. Mike has broken different rules than the SRUs that were firing on him. The SRUs firing on him received a ban for 12.7 violation. Mike, on the other hand, has comitted a violation of Misc. Rules 19.2 Do not promote anything conflicting with the rules in adverts, broadcasts, laws or by other means. which is not a minor violation. On top of that, he has committed the breaking of FearRP by acting like a fearless sargeant, knowingly taking damage and not calling off his troops.
2. Mike is on his last chance, which, like it always has been, gains a player a permanent suspension from the servers for a rule violation that warrants a ban.

- The rule break wasn't blatant
-> In real life, riot shield test has been done as well. We've got broken riotshields on the server. While they should protect you against bullets, they don't do much here. We can not assume that Mike was aware of this. The shooting after the damage was taken, was a rule break, however. Not only by Mike though, but by those who participated.

In real life, the test would have stopped as soon as an injury occurred. Ukraine reloaded TWICE after dealing damage to Mike. Mike even healed himself while he was being shot at. Awestruck was calling out his health, as it was dropping. On the TS they said, and I quote: 'Yeah yeah, it's RNG [meaning random] if you take damage or not'. There was blood splatter everywhere. How much more proof do we need that Mike and everyone involved was aware of the damage being done?

[Mike]

My replies 4.1 through 4.3 covers this. The final warning was transferred because of a communication mishap and certain staff not being aware that the final warning is in place.





Thanks for your time on this post, it is clear you are doing everything in your power to re-assure the staff points, you have messaged me privately stating that you are attempting to be neutral, it is obvious you have failed - as every single one of your points only tried to argue the point of staff.

I will have you know, following your comment above, the final warning was NOT in place, you were not even a staff member at the time of this happening and you are simply going by the words of other, in my opinion, corrupt staff that are doing nothing but trying to hold me and my opinions down with a permanent ban - you know you who are. 

SoulRipper will back me up on my following statement: 

THERE WAS NO FINAL WARNING.

This whole case is invalid and needs to be approved for that reason, I will state this again for the 5th time.. The final warning was AGREED by the staff members after the DDoS UBR was approved because Hitman joked about it. Soul then said to me not to worry about the final warning. He stated that the final warning was indeed revoked because of this situation, NightHawkd obviously wasn't aware of Souls decision, so when I was banned next, it was a perm to which a UBR was approved AGAIN and then a final warning placed on my name because of backseat admin which was a third ban.

So Avgar, tell me this and this only as everything else is irrelevant. b

1. Why on God's earth did I receive a final warning for a backseat admin offence. The previous ban before was REVOKED and final warning REMOVED. So essentially RIGHT NOW I've been perm banned because of a final warning that was placed on me after 3 bans for backseat admin (FORGET DDoS ban this was removed, revoked and completely forgotten).

This is really not hard to understand.

THIS SHOULD NOT BE A PERM BAN

[SoulRipper]

The last warning is indeed not supported by a valid reason.

The player, Mike, made a joke about DDoS. He received a permanent ban for this. Some time after a staff member made a similar DDoS joke, while Mike and I (along with others) were in the same Teamspeak channel. The staff member has not faced any consequences, so Mike shouldn't have punished for it either. If Mike broke the ToS, so did the staff member. Therefore I think the final warning is certainly undeserved. He was unbanned and the final warning should've been taken off him as well. In my opinion, a permanent ban is not justified.

The decision will be based on a democratic staff poll...

[Mike]

The last warning is indeed not supported by a valid reason.

The player, Mike, made a joke about DDoS. He received a permanent ban for this. Some time after a staff member made a similar DDoS joke, while Mike and I (along with others) were in the same Teamspeak channel. The staff member has not faced any consequences, so Mike shouldn't have punished for it either. If Mike broke the ToS, so did the staff member. Therefore I think the final warning is certainly undeserved. He was unbanned and the final warning should've been taken off him as well. In my opinion, a permanent ban is not justified.

The decision will be based on a democratic staff poll...

Soul, I'm sorry but how can a democratic poll be used to decide whether I should be permanently banned or not considering all staff are going to agree anyway. We all know the outcome of that vote. 

HOW can there possibly be a poll to judge a perm ban if the reason for that perm ban isn't even valid? This unban request is to highlight the fact the reason for my perm is not actually legit and does not exist and therefore this perm should be removed, right?

What you're doing here is essentially equal to picking someone random from the list of bans and saying "Right, I pick you and we as a staff team are going to vote whether you should be perm banned or not"


I don't even know why this perm ban is being discussed any longer - Soul, you yourself have stated that the final warning was NOT in action due to its REMOVAL so how the hell can I be banned permanently due to a final warning that WAS NOT THERE 

[Avgar]

Hello, Mike.

The Administrative team had a long discussion about your entire ban/last chance history as well as the points you have made on your unban request. We have come to the conclusion that the initial last chance, once it was removed, should not be transferred forward as you get banned.

Therefore, this unban request is now approved. The ban will be kept on your history, as the team have agreed that you did indeed break the rules listed. However, you are no longer permanently banned from the servers and you are no longer considered as being on your last chance. In order for you to be placed on your last chance, you will have to collect the usual amount of bans or commit a dire violation of the rules without getting permanently suspended to be placed on your last chance.

Apologies for the inconvenience.

Signed,
Fearless Administrative Team