Player Reports: 'Do not request log checks'
#31
Yes, I agree with that. Definitely
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#32
Glad that clears it up a bit more for you guys. I myself can't record as I already have awful FPS issues, and it's not really for my own benefit but I understand not everyone records and even people that do can't record 24/7. I think it might just help with some straight forward reports in future.
#33
I guess it is tough luck, if you are unable to run recording software and there are no staff on then you can't report any rule breakage.
I don't believe asking for a logs check shouldn't be allowed in most cases but I think exceptions should be made for more major forms of rule breakage like scamming or even major prop spam, even still I just PM a member of staff and they often have a look.
Asking for log checks in PRs can waste lots of time and will lead to an increase in PRs for things like FearPR that can't be proven by logs.
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#34
It's not a waste of time if you have evidence of what happened and the time it happened. Then the admin could compare the log to what your explanation is and the evidence provided. Either it matches up or it doesn't.

Obviously you can't prove FearRP using just the logs and how is it a waste of time checking the logs if it can (dis)prove a player report?

Player reports still need to have proper reasoning and evidence provided. The log should be used if necessary to prove or disprove something if in doubt.
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#35
(03-15-2017, 07:18 PM)MrFinnConlon Wrote: I guess it is tough luck, if you are unable to run recording software and there are no staff on then you can't report any rule breakage.
I don't believe asking for a logs check shouldn't be allowed in most cases but I think exceptions should be made for more major forms of rule breakage like scamming or even major prop spam, even still I just PM a member of staff and they often have a look.
Asking for log checks in PRs can waste lots of time and will lead to an increase in PRs for things like FearPR that can't be proven by logs.

We have a big enough team to deal with reports that would request log checks, especially since reports that request this form of proof submission will still have to be detailed and have some spine to it. Obviously as said, in some cases you just can't (FearRP etc.) but for the stuff that most get away with just because we couldn't record 20 seconds of gameplay really sucks. Not to mention 9 times out of 10 the inspecting staff member will cross check the logs to ensure anyone involved/what happened is true and vetted by the logs.
#36
Most of the time logs are checked if some evidence is supplied, even just a screenshot or two. But the problem comes when someone just says "[insert player] cdmed me today, check the logs". We need evidence because context is very important in most cases. Without any context we only have a few logged actions to go from, and a players accusation. That alone is never enough to punish any player unless it is an extreme case, such as mass cdm, mass rdm, scamming, or other really large rule-breaks that would be really easy to tell.

Logs don't:

Record audio
Record visuals
Record physical actions (walking, running, jumping, grabbing)
Record fearRP
Record active tool changes (switching from hands to a gun)
Record punches, bullet hits, or any damage done to the player. (They are logged only temporarily in the damage logs that are accessed from within the server, and those only track what an admin has been logged on for, and still clear often.)

Logs do:

Record all typed commands and text.
Record kills, prop pushes, cdm, knock outs
Record spawned props
Record attempted hacking
Record spawned props
Record item/money transactions, purchases, sells, drops, gives
Record connects and disconnects and spawns


Because of this, we need to have SOMETHING to go off of in a vast majority of cases, otherwise the accused player will almost never be punished. That is why we need player submitted evidence. Any situation that requires context will not be punished unless we see clear evidence from the player, or it was a mass RDM/CDM or a scam.


I should also mention the logs are not perfect. For example: sometimes when player's bodies interact with props, a false signal for prop killing is sent and logged to the system.
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#37
(03-16-2017, 04:30 AM)MasterNoda Wrote: -Snip-

I think that pretty much covers it. Appreciate you giving us a better insight into the logs as you can understand it's easy for us to request this when we've not worked with the system before. I don't really have anything to counter your reply, if anyone else does feel free to add onto the discussion but if not I can't see this going any further.
#38
I tended to just check logs around the time of the scenario anyway to confirm things and get a better understanding of the situation.
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