Jordy Unban Request - A mistake from me.

[Temar]

I'd say random demote of government isn't allowed
And I'm sure I've punished for it before also
But other jobs I don't care about because those work different and aren't accountable for there actions unlike government

[Burnett]

Exactly. A 'random demote' isn't allowed but I don't think its random. As a pres/sergeant/whatever you have all the right to maintain your assets. How did he get the hours? Well a president/team-leader normally knows all the records of their team. I wouldn't mind some background RP as for example (/radio Officer Shithead please come to my office we need to discuss things) but yet theres no guidelines. We cannot say it's metagaming because everything far from that would be metagamin aswell. What about OOC names that are written on custom-doors, thus giving an officer an unafair advantage in a raid. We all have different opinions when it comes to meta/powergaming in this particular case. We made rules to help people understand things better, not to punish if a rule doesn't exist.

[Jordy]

Exactly. A 'random demote' isn't allowed but I don't think its random. As a pres/sergeant/whatever you have all the right to maintain your assets. How did he get the hours? Well a president/team-leader normally knows all the records of their team. I wouldn't mind some background RP as for example (/radio Officer Shithead please come to my office we need to discuss things) but yet theres no guidelines. We cannot say it's metagaming because everything far from that would be metagamin aswell. What about OOC names that are written on custom-doors, thus giving an officer an unafair advantage in a raid. We all have different opinions when it comes to meta/powergaming in this particular case. We made rules to help people understand things better, not to punish if a rule doesn't exist.

Exactly, it is not metagaming to know everything about your team as Sergeant because its common sense, a Sergeant knows everything before speaking with them ICly. Metagaming and powergaming are just enforced on admins different opinions which means different admins have different says on this matter. This is why it needs to be outlined more and given more of a explanation on what the guidelines are for the two rules.

[Nacreas]

Questions:

1. In what way was this person inexperienced?
   
2. Was the demoted player role-playing as an inexperienced SWAT Unit?
   

[Jordy]

1. He did not meet up to my requirements for a valuable SWAT team member, this is very important so the city is safer due to the team being the best it can be.

2. No, as said before and what Burnett said "you have all the right to maintain your assets." "Well a president/team-leader normally knows all the records of their team." and he did not role-play inexperienced I just common sense and thought that as a team-leader, in this case the Sergeant, would already know how well the candidate is and what his skills are.

[Nacreas]

1. He did not meet up to my requirements for a valuable SWAT team member, this is very important so the city is safer due to the team being the best it can be.

2. No, as said before and what Burnett said "you have all the right to maintain your assets." "Well a president/team-leader normally knows all the records of their team." and he did not role-play inexperienced I just common sense and thought that as a team-leader, in this case the Sergeant, would already know how well the candidate is and what his skills are.

How did he not meet up to your requirements and how did you test this?

[Jordy]

Well for example each team on FL Rebel, Corleone, SWAT, Police etc have different says on this however as a SWAT Sergeant when you get a new member who changes job to SWAT you without reading through stuff in game, you will know there name and information as previously said before by both Burnett and I. This is due to it being common sense. If I feel like he isn't skilled enough in that area then he will not benefit my team. The way he did not meet my requirements is because when everyone IRL applies for a job you gain there CV and because on FL there is no way to acccept a member or deny them from the job like a vote from the other team members I have to demote them after. However this is no place to discuss what FL haven't got implemented, I just used it as an example as when someone joins you're team in game; common sense would come into play and believe you should already know how they are without metagaming.

[Nacreas]

Well for example each team on FL Rebel, Corleone, SWAT, Police etc have different says on this however as a SWAT Sergeant when you get a new member who changes job to SWAT you without reading through stuff in game, you will know there name and information as previously said before by both Burnett and I. This is due to it being common sense. If I feel like he isn't skilled enough in that area then he will not benefit my team. The way he did not meet my requirements is because when everyone IRL applies for a job you gain there CV and because on FL there is no way to acccept a member or deny them from the job like a vote from the other team members I have to demote them after. However this is no place to discuss what FL haven't got implemented, I just used it as an example as when someone joins you're team in game; common sense would come into play and believe you should already know how they are without metagaming.

You decided that they were inexperienced without testing their abilities. If the demoted player agreed to role-play this with you, sure go ahead with it, but to my understanding they didn't.

[Jordy]

Okay I would to say a few things now:

1. Why was a banned after another administrator had dealt with this previously and given a warning? I did not carry on to demote players after this.

2. Why isn't this clearly addressed in the rules because basically this 'ban' is not documented in the rules for me to know about and other players.

[Blurr]

Vol supplied evidence with a chat between the him and Ikaros, he translated it for us and it say in short terms that he didn't get informed that Obay had dealt with the case meaning Jordy was dealt with twice.
It isn't clearly stated in the rules either.