Flex
#1
Reported User(s): Flex

Reported User's SteamID:  STEAM_0:1:159462299

Date & Time (GMT): 6/3/21 @ 00:28 GMT

Summary of the incident
Me and a team member were basing in a villa, some police officers came up and requested a warrant for a reason related to a raid on nexus 10 minutes or so before. We had not been in the nexus at all (and had not been in the city since the server started) and they had no reason for believing we had. There was no law against high fences and they had not seen a barricaded window until they were inside. They boosted over the wall before the warrant was accepted and did not engage in any RP but just forced their way in and shot the contraband which they had no way of knowing was present before they were in the building. 

In short, these police made up a reason to raid and made no attempt to roleplay the situation other than typing "move c*nt" in text chat. 

The other police players present were Alan, MrMaaze and Rutobia. The other Corleone was Indigeo. 

I'm happy to give any further information to prove that there was no valid IC reason given to raid.

Evidence
[Image: j0YMz3u]
#2
The images haven't embedded properly so here's the link:
https://imgur.com/a/j0YMz3u
#3
POSTING ON BEHALF OF MY CLIENT FLEX

Hello Sharman,

We believed you fitted the description of the people who raided the nexus prior therefore giving us reason to carry out a search on your premises. We requested a warrant and carried out the search as per normal.

Therefore I see no rule breakages here.

Kind Regards,
Director Alfred Chadwick

Provided to you by Alfred Chadwick Lawyer Services
[Image: alfred.png]
#4
Hey Sharman,

The property the police raided had contraband and blocked windows, both of which are valid reasons to search. The reason for the raid was "suspect in nexus riot", which with the statement Flex provided does make sense as there was a large riot that took place not long before the police raided your property. I can't verify if the people basing with you were present in the raid or not, however I do remember Corleones taking part and I don't have any reason to doubt Flex in his statement.

I've checked the logs and I cannot find anything that suggests that they didn't obtain a warrant before raiding, I can see a warrant was requested before you were handcuffed and before Flex said move in chat. From the screenshot you provided it does seem like they're conducting a simple boost, which is perfectly fine.

The evidence you've provided does not prove anything that I didn't already establish when I dealt with the @ call you made ingame. If you don't have any further evidence to provide, I'm afraid I will have to deny this PR.
Pollux
Fearless Management
bork
__________________________________________________________________
#5
This raid was during a Dictatorship Rp which I received an RP point for. The police were fully within their right to raid under the circumstances of the current laws that were in place. I apologize that your base got raided, but the officer involved were all acting under proper RP circumstances.
#6
Hello everyone,

Thanks for your comments so far.

I don't agree that the police were acting on a matching description from the nexus raid as I went with all of the corleones from the city when the server started and I don't believe any of them had a chance to go to the raid. The police also couldn't have recognised us as we were inside the whole time before they began the raid.

I'd like to ask Pollux, if the police had been given a search warrant before they began the raid as you said above, why did they feel the need to boost over the wall? I appreciate you've said they're allowed to boost (which I wasn't aware of originally).

In addition I always believed that raiding based on people's jobs (such as one corleone or rebel committing a crime and the police using this as justification to raid any person with the same job) is metagaming and was discouraged if not against the rules entirely.

I don't have any further proof to add to the post so I accept that this will be rejected. I would just like some clarification on whether it is acceptable to raid for tenuous reasons and then justify it with different reasons afterwards.

I would also like confirmation on whether the manner in which the raid was executed was acceptable roleplay (I appreciate the president was a dictator and this gives the police leave to act more aggressively), specifically the way the police made no attempt to investigate the reason they claimed the raid was for.

I'm happy to be corrected on this one as the rules have changed over the years and I'm not claiming to know them all by heart, I just felt that this situation was not up to the standard that some people set on this server.
#7
(03-06-2021, 05:34 PM)Sharman Wrote: I'd like to ask Pollux, if the police had been given a search warrant before they began the raid as you said above, why did they feel the need to boost over the wall? I appreciate you've said they're allowed to boost (which I wasn't aware of originally).

I don't know but I don't think that's relevant here either, I can see that they requested the warrant long before they cuffed you and that's really all that matters in relation to a potential rule breakage.

(03-06-2021, 05:34 PM)Sharman Wrote: In addition I always believed that raiding based on people's jobs (such as one corleone or rebel committing a crime and the police using this as justification to raid any person with the same job) is metagaming and was discouraged if not against the rules entirely.

Some roles have distinct clothing which you can identify based on. For example let's say Corleones are banned from the city, if I see a corleone wearing the default outfit I'm able to arrest them for being a corleone in the city. If you were wearing any other clothing then it would be metagaming for them to claim you're a corleone from just looking at you.

(03-06-2021, 05:34 PM)Sharman Wrote: I don't have any further proof to add to the post so I accept that this will be rejected. I would just like some clarification on whether it is acceptable to raid for tenuous reasons and then justify it with different reasons afterwards.

Proper roleplay usually defines the lines between something being allowed and something being against the rules. If after the riots the cops went through the effort of identifying potential suspects and raided you based on that then I don't see any issue with it. I'm going to have to assume this was properly roleplayed as there's no evidence showing that it wasn't.

(03-06-2021, 05:34 PM)Sharman Wrote: I would also like confirmation on whether the manner in which the raid was executed was acceptable roleplay (I appreciate the president was a dictator and this gives the police leave to act more aggressively), specifically the way the police made no attempt to investigate the reason they claimed the raid was for.

The conduct of the police during the raid was IC. If there was an issue with how the police raided your property (in terms of their aggressive behaviour) then it should be taken up with the president and such, it's not an OOC matter unless it broke another rule.

As there's no further evidence, I'm going to decline this PR.
Pollux
Fearless Management
bork
__________________________________________________________________
#8
Moved
Regards,
Connnnnnnn

Consider giving me a rep point here.



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