A Pickle for the Knowing Ones (serious)

[Fry]

Could experienced members of the fearless community explain to me as to why when creating an unbaneth request THE ADMIN WHO BANNED YOU is allowed to close it.

1. Each response should be as narrowly focussed as possible - motivate the problem, explain how your answer solves that
   
2. problem, and defend it against objection. 
   
3. Don’t include historical background, lists of alternative positions, or extraneous factoids.
   
4. Do define technical terms clearly, make each step in your argument explicit, and consider including an illustrative example.
   
5. You are not expected to do any outside research for this assignment (although you may if you wish).
   
6. Follow standard referencing practice, and clearly cite any sources that you draw on for specific claims.
   
7. If you have clarificatory questions about this assignment, please ask me and only me.
   

thanks yous

signed
pete and bas

[Awestruck]

The banning admin, who is promoted based on the fact they will be objective and unbias, usually has full understanding of the situation and can therefore deal with it appropriately. Misconduct or abuse can be reported.

8 times out of 10, your UBR will be denied unless you can provide solid proof you didn't break the rules.

[Luna]

Pickle

[Ducktard]

wud be nice if a different admin concluded rather than the banning admin so the case has had at least one additional staff opinion, doesn't stop banning admin raising any points needed nd just kinda makes sense really

[Fry]

The banning admin, who is promoted based on the fact they will be objective and unbias, usually has full understanding of the situation and can therefore deal with it appropriately. Misconduct or abuse can be reported.

8 times out of 10, your UBR will be denied unless you can provide solid proof you didn't break the rules.

Awestruck thank you for your quick and explanatory reply. However! There are many issues with this system.

1. The admin who unbanned you is going to have an inherent bias to uphold his own decision lest he be made out a fool!
   
2. Giving admins the potential to close cases they're already linked to gives them the chance to sweep these things under the rug! Although I have no proof, I wonder how many times this has happened and the banned individual could not be bothered to report it!
   
3. Why is it the role of the accused to show there are not in the wrong, what happened to innocent before proven guilty!
   
4. Why do we assume admins will always be objective and unbiased! Many times this has been shown not to be true (not to mention the recent removal of an admin whose name shall not be mentioned!) as by the staggering amount of staff reports!
   
5. You are right! Misconduct can be reported, but it not always is! Staff reports take a lot of time, and most people cannot be bothered! By kicking the bucket of potential staff abuse down the road, we allow potential abuses of power to go unnoticed!
   

[Pollux]

The banning admin, who is promoted based on the fact they will be objective and unbias, usually has full understanding of the situation and can therefore deal with it appropriately. Misconduct or abuse can be reported.

8 times out of 10, your UBR will be denied unless you can provide solid proof you didn't break the rules.

Awestruck thank you for your quick and explanatory reply. However! There are many issues with this system.

1. The admin who unbanned you is going to have an inherent bias to uphold his own decision lest he be made out a fool!
   
2. Giving admins the potential to close cases they're already linked to gives them the chance to sweep these things under the rug! Although I have no proof, I wonder how many times this has happened and the banned individual could not be bothered to report it!
   
3. Why is it the role of the accused to show there are not in the wrong, what happened to innocent before proven guilty!
   
4. Why do we assume admins will always be objective and unbiased! Many times this has been shown not to be true (not to mention the recent removal of an admin whose name shall not be mentioned!) as by the staggering amount of staff reports!
   
5. You are right! Misconduct can be reported, but it not always is! Staff reports take a lot of time, and most people cannot be bothered! By kicking the bucket of potential staff abuse down the road, we allow potential abuses of power to go unnoticed!
   

You're forgetting that someone who wasn't there at the situation can't handle it, which generally leaves just the banning admin. You can't get a second admin opinion as they weren't there, they won't understand the entire situation. That's why proof is essential to UBRs, I'm sure if you had proof you didn't break the rules or showing it was a misunderstanding then it would be lifted. It's not a perfect system but I can't think of anything better.

[Birdy6006]

Fry speaking fax. Plus most of the admins are petty as fuck on this server ngl.

[Fry]

Pollux

You're forgetting that someone who wasn't there at the situation can't handle it, which generally leaves just the banning admin. You can't get a second admin opinion as they weren't there, they won't understand the entire situation. That's why proof is essential to UBRs, I'm sure if you had proof you didn't break the rules or showing it was a misunderstanding then it would be lifted. It's not a perfect system but I can't think of anything better.

Pullux! Thank you for your reply also!

I understand your point but the whole reason player reports are made is because admins were not there to deal with it when it happened! All admins can read the PR made and make an opinion on it and the excuse that only the original admin is informed enough to form an opinion on a PR is frankly ridiculous!

Yes this post may have been motivated by recent events that concern my dear friend Moomin and his unfair denial (unban moomin) but it reveals a deeper problem within the current system for dealing with unban requests!

It's a shame because it is such a simple problem to solve too! Wait for all evidence and points to be made from all parties, then have a different admin review the points etc. and make a decision, even better would be a trio of admins that all vote on a decision instead, further removing any potential for bias!

edit (i'm not accusing Steven8ken of abusing or trying to hide anything but am angry at the system in general)

[Birdy6006]

I agree with Fry here. I knew of at least one admin sympathetic to my situation but as Steven8ken immediately denied my UBR and gave a warning there's nothing I can do. A trio to review sounds much fairer than what's currently in place.

[Birdy6006]

I agree with Fry here. I knew of at least one admin sympathetic to my situation but as Steven8ken immediately denied my UBR and gave a warning there's nothing I can do. A trio to review sounds much fairer than what's currently in place.

**Correction, it was snowflame. Made a mistake