TheSiphon
#1
Reported User(s): TheSiphon

Reported User's SteamID: STEAM_0:0:53871757

Date & Time (GMT): 29/6/20 @ 16:00 GMT

Summary of the incident
I believe that Siphon is guilty of power-gaming. I had received a call from a friend to go assist in an ongoing raid. While driving towards there I did crash on to one of the traffic lights. Siphon was nearby and witnessed the crash, while at first he did not come after me, he later changed his mind due to hearing the reloading sound ( Me using ammunition ), he then proceeds to put me under fear RP and performs a body search. Now here is the part that the rule breakage began.

Although Siphon found absolutely nothing on me, he proceeded to say "Hmm, didn't get the gun yet it seems" while we were near park and it could have easily been somebody else using the ammo, Siphon instantly assumed it was me although he did not find it on me. To me it is quite obvious that Siphon used his OOC knowledge to know that ammunition does not appear in a body search, by the chat logs I will be presenting further down you can quite clearly see that even tho he has absolutely no evidence on me there is no doubt in his mind that it's me who used it. 

He then proceeded to arrest me for reckless driving and attempting to arm up, although there is no possible way for him to know it was me, considering he cuffed me right after I used it I would have had no time to get rid of the ammo, instead of thinking that he assumed it was me due to him knowing that such thing as ammo does not appear in a body search.

In any other case reckless driving would have most likely been a simple fine, but just because he knew ( once again using OOC knowledge and reading my job title ) that if he had let go of me I would have joined that raid he decided to arrest me for pretty much nothing.

To sum up, lines like "Hmm, didn't get the gun yet it seems" and including in the arrest reason that I was attempting to arm up and having absolutely no doubt its me that used the ammo although he has no real proof of it by the body search just scream powergaming to me.

Evidence
https://imgur.com/a/P1wRo13 

https://imgur.com/a/Uh8sBwn ( Him having no doubt that it was me although it was not on me )

https://imgur.com/a/H3lrS6N   ( As you can see throughout the whole situation Siphon never really replied to why he did not find it                                                  while performing a body search he avoided it every time both IC and LOOC ) 

( There are more screenshots that can be presented but its mostly us arguing about it in LOOC )
#2
Like I said in-game, it's not powergaming. I can't recall any situation where the sound of loading ammo has been deemed to be not enough of a reason to take action. I've seen many cases were loading ammo has lead to property searches, searching of individuals, and arrests. It has always been considered a valid reason, as long as you can pin it on someone.

I heard the sound very clearly as I was standing right next to you at that point. The streets were empty and only other people around were the officers at the backstreet. If it was a crowded area or if there was even one other person near you, I wouldn't have included in the arrest reason. You weren't close enough to the park for the sound to come from there, and as I said, you were the only person around. Also, the officers were too far away to have been the source of the sound. 
So even if I couldn't find the ammo during the search, it was clear that you were the one loading the ammo. Just because nothing incriminating was found on your person, other evidence can still lead to you getting deemed guilty. 

The actual arrest was for the reckless driving where you were speeding and crashed at nexus front, only a few meters away from me. Originally I wasn't going after you since I didn't have my car, but you stopped very conveniently right outside the Nexus slope, so I decided to arrest you there. Even if you hadn't been loading ammo, I would have arrested you for the driving part.
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#3
You are once again missing the main issue. There was no role-play involved in that situation what so ever, it was just you using your general knowledge of the game. Even though you performed a body searched and found absolutely nothing on me, even tho we were close enough to both park and apartments ( Which at the time was an on going raid ) and it could have easily been a sound coming from either place, you were still so determined it was me that used the ammo. You completely ignored the fact that you body searched me since you knew that ammo does not show on it. Just like in game you are once again not answering to my main point, you searched me and found nothing, why were you still determined it's me? What does the phrase "Hmm, didn't get the gun yet it seems"
mean, how were you so sure I was role playing as something that would get a gun out, why did you instantly jump to the assumption I was a criminal when you found nothing illegal on me and did not background check what so ever?

This whole situation consisted of no RP what so ever from your part, you jumped into assumptions due to my job title, you found nothing illegal on me yet you arrested me for it, even if I was to use a gun ( Which you had no proof of it what so ever ), how did you know it would have been a heavy and illegal weapon, is it because you were aware of the ongoing raid on apartments?

The whole situation just screams power gaming man.

[ Just a quick clarification as reading back to the post seems as if I am bothered about the arrest which is not the case, Siphon rushed to make an arrest to make sure I would not join the on going raid, he made up the reason of the arrest using information he was not aware of ( Me having ammunition loaded ) and reading my job title]
#4
(06-29-2020, 06:58 PM)Dimitris Wrote: You are once again missing the main issue. There was no role-play involved in that situation what so ever, it was just you using your general knowledge of the game. Even though you performed a body searched and found absolutely nothing on me, even tho we were close enough to both park and apartments ( Which at the time was an on going raid ) and it could have easily been a sound coming from either place, you were still so determined it was me that used the ammo. You completely ignored the fact that you body searched me since you knew that ammo does not show on it. It's quite literally common sense!

The search was to see if you already had a gun equipped, which would have lead to another charge, but I knew it was you loading the ammo from you being the only person around and me basically being right next to you when you were loading it. Combine that with the reckless driving, speeding towards the apartments, loading ammo, and your overall behavior. Suddenly it's not so convincing that you're just an innocent citizen. No OOC information needed.
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#5
You are once again avoiding to answer the main questions I raised so I will repeat them once more. You heard the sound of ammo being used, you assumed it was me since from what you said you were pretty close, however after performing a body search you ended up finding nothing, at the time there was an on going raid at apartments ( Extremely close to us ) and there was the park that you had no clear vision of since we were not within its walls, as an in-game character after you searched me and found nothing you should have assumed it was somebody else since you had quite literally just searched me from head to toe but you did not assume that. You knew it was me because you read my job title and you used your OOC knowledge knowing that ammo does in fact NOT show in the body search. From an experienced member like you I would have expected common sense to be used and better role-play rather than straight up power gaming. This whole time I have been a part of this community I was always told to use common sense so I do not understand how you, a retired administrator could have acted in the way you did.
#6
(06-29-2020, 07:13 PM)Dimitris Wrote: You are once again avoiding to answer the main questions I raised so I will repeat them once more. You heard the sound of ammo being used, you assumed it was me since from what you said you were pretty close, however after performing a body search you ended up finding nothing

As I said, just because something is not found, doesn't mean you are innocent. 

It doesn't matter where or how you hid the ammo since I had enough evidence to pin it on you anyways. 
It's quite like the situation where you see an armed man, but he holsters the weapon and it doesn't show up during the search. It doesn't matter where or how he hid the weapon since there is enough evidence to pin the crime on him. 
It's not powergaming, as there is plenty of evidence to pin it on you. No OOC assumption needed about job names or anything, the sound doesn't go very far (not sure about the exact range), but it certainly wasn't anyone else. 

Also, keep in mind, all of this resulted in two additional words being added to the arrest reason "Arming up" (or however I worded it), it's an additional charge on top of the speeding and reckless driving which is enough of a reason to arrest you. 


Quote:You knew it was me because you read my job title and you used your OOC knowledge knowing that ammo does in fact NOT show in the body search


I knew it was you because you were the only suspect around. Compare that to like a shopping street with at least one additional person and I wouldn't have used that charge against you. Also, any OOC knowledge is irrelevant as the in-character evidence was enough to deem you guilty. No need for OOC information to conduct the arrest. 

If there is only one possible suspect, then the charge is automatically on them.
If there were two people around, like you had some buddy who was a normal citizen, then it would be unfair to pin the ammo loading on you. 

Also, I would have much preferred if you contacted the two staff members who were online during the situation, instead of using the forums. Would have gotten the situation solved in a couple of minutes instead of dragging it for a while.
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#7
Under review.
#8
As Police during the situation the main reason for arrest didn't seem to actually be the arming up or use of ammunition, instead the wreckless driving; indicated by 'Firstly, you were wrecklessly driving". Now in many cases the loading of ammunition can be seen as a reason to search/raid because if not there would be no sound effects for loading firearms and seeing as the main brunt of the arrest which I'd like to point out was for 2 minutes I do not personally see any powergaming infringements. Unless any other evidence can be provided I fail to see how this is Powergaming.
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Joe Joe
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#9
Well no. The examples you are giving have no connection to out situation what so ever. When you see an armed man you do actually see his face so once you manage getting to him you do quite literally know its him. In this situation you saw absolutely nothing. All that you heard was the reloading sound and as I mentioned 3 times above, there was an on going raid right next to us ( At apartments and park was also right next where you also had no vision of ) Yet you were determined it's me. 

Anyways it's gotten to the point where I had to repeat myself on all my posts because for some reason you've decided to still ignore most of the questions I raised most likely cause you have no real answer to them, to me the situation is quite obvious. I will be waiting for an admin's response.
#10
(06-29-2020, 07:56 PM)Joe Joe Wrote: As Police during the situation the main reason for arrest didn't seem to actually be the arming up or use of ammunition, instead the wreckless driving; indicated by 'Firstly, you were wrecklessly driving". Now in many cases the loading of ammunition can be seen as a reason to search/raid because if not there would be no sound effects for loading firearms and seeing as the main brunt of the arrest which I'd like to point out was for 2 minutes I do not personally see any powergaming infringements. Unless any other evidence can be provided I fail to see how this is Powergaming.

Hello Joe Joe, from what I can tell you did not really bother reading all replies and checking screenshots, reckless driving is most of the times not a reason to arrest someone, also the main issue here is the way Siphon acted upon information he could in no way have gathered in that short time of period. Also your involvement to the situation was little to none, for the most part you seemed to be afk as I can see from the chat logs I gathered since Siphon requested you to accept the warrant multiple times and it took you a good 5-6 minutes until you did. So I am not sure why you are acting as if you really know the situation that well.


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