Report: KA34

[konsta]

Name of player: KA34

SteamID: STEAM_0:0:71454368

Time in GMT: Around 10:05 PM GMT

Server: V2D

Involved: me, JackZ, KA34 and Grapefruit

Summary: Basically me and JackZ were driving around in my Bentley GT, then we spotted KA34 powergaming by self supplying himself with medkits. He has 822 hours, he should know better.

His excuse was "I'm supplying myself so I can sell them later", this is not an excuse as it is still considered powergaming, I know this for a fact as this is not an excuse and forbidden, as I was banned for the same reason with the same excuse.



Evidence:





Now you see him asking in the OOC chat if it's allowed or forbidden in the screenshot below, he should know better with nearly 1000 hours.

[Anton.]

Hello,
Thank you for player reporting me for what you suspected was a rule break. I I see the confusion here, it was not "self supplying" since i did not buy it for my own use. It's the same thing as selling rifle ammo as a black market dealer or coffe on the marketplace. The f4 market is in character trading, as such I was supplying myself to be able to stock my listings on the ic f4 market. I understand your confusion, can you please not compare different situations.

[konsta]

Hello,
Thank you for player reporting me for what you suspected was a rule break.                                                    I I see the confusion here, it was not "self supplying" since i did not buy it for my own use. It's the same thing as selling rifle ammo as a black market dealer or coffe on the marketplace. The f4 market is in character trading, as such I was supplying myself to be able to stock my listings on the ic f4 market. I understand your confusion, can you please not compare different situations.

Doesn't matter, I discussed with Awestruck who banned me and I explained to him what exactly you explained to me. He said it doesn't matter, under no circumstances you should self supply, even if you're going to sell your supplies that you just supplied yourself with. It's still considered powergaming. Changing jobs to supply yourself even if you're going to sell them is still forbidden. Rule 2.5 supports my arguement.

[Captain Barry]

I decided not to touch this report as Awestruck is technically involved and I was expecting him to take it, however he appears busy so I will pick this up as it's over 2 weeks old at this point in time.

I am afraid this is infact powergaming KA34 as you are not purchasing these items as part of an order from another player. While the existence of the F4 market is convenient, it is not a reason to self supply.
There is also no way of knowing you where intent on putting those medkits on the market in the first place. Had you not been confronted, you could have easily just kept those medkits and no-one would have noticed. That is why we don't allow people to purchase items so that they can put them on the market. If we did allow this, it could be abused as a loophole to self-supply.

Is there anything else you wish to discuss?

[Anton.]

I decided not to touch this report as Awestruck is technically involved and I was expecting him to take it, however he appears busy so I will pick this up as it's over 2 weeks old at this point in time.

I am afraid this is infact powergaming KA34 as you are not purchasing these items as part of an order from another player. While the existence of the F4 market is convenient, it is not a reason to self supply.
There is also no way of knowing you where intent on putting those medkits on the market in the first place. Had you not been confronted, you could have easily just kept those medkits and no-one would have noticed. That is why we don't allow people to purchase items so that they can put them on the market. If we did allow this, it could be abused as a loophole to self-supply.

Is there anything else you wish to discuss?

I am very confused about this as buying and then selling things on the marketplace is something i have seen many do and was even recommended as a way of making money by some players who have well over 1000 hours. I even asked around if it was against the rules, every person i asked said it is not or that it should not be against the rules. I read the rules about powergaming multiple times and even asked Willem(before he was demoted). I have never gotten the indication that it could be against the rules exept for when zombie and jackz told me that it was.

The rule for powergaming states:

2.5 Powergaming is not allowed, meaning you can't force people into situations, always try to do something, such as '/me tries to snap his arm' instead of '/me snaps his arm'.

Also do not abuse something that gives you an advantage, such as changing jobs to buy something for yourself or switching jobs with the sole purpose of joining a raid.

I do not see any part of it where it states that it is against the rules. Stating that i could have used this as a way for self supplying is not something i feal is enough to get punished for as i did not self supply and you would need evidence proving i did self supply before you can punish me for self supplying.

[Captain Barry]

The fact that you bought these items for yourself is infact powergaming.

2.5 Powergaming is not allowed, meaning you can't force people into situations, always try to do something, such as '/me tries to snap his arm' instead of '/me snaps his arm'.

Also do not abuse something that gives you an advantage, such as changing jobs to buy something for yourself or switching jobs with the sole purpose of joining a raid.

Regardless of wether or not you were going to place them on the market, the items where initially bought for yourself as you never received an order for the medkits from another player.
You need a purchase order from another player to spawn items from the market such as medkits, otherwise there is nothing stopping you from keeping them yourself as I stated earlier.

If we allowed people to buy items in that way so long as they put them on the market, it would be a huge amount of administrative resources poured into checking everyone's item and market logs to ensure that they do in fact place every single one of them on the market. Can you imagine the situation that would create on the server? Administrators would be too busy scouring though hours and hours of people's logs to make sure they aren't powergaming. It's a whole boat load of commitment that doesn't need to be undertaken at all.

Also, the argument that 'because it is not in the rules I can do it' is not a solid argument at all.
The rule specifically states that changing jobs to buy items for yourself is not allowed. Just because the rules do not mention the F4 market, does not mean it's a liable reason to powergame.
That's also commonly known as loopholing.
I do not think that you were specifically looking for ways through the rules yourself, however I will just mention that to you.

Seeing as you had been led to believe this was infact not against the rules by several other players, I myself have been in that predicament so I will leave this at a warning for now.

I recommend you refrain from doing this again in the future, and ask with several staff members when you're unsure about something.

Approved.
[FL:RP] KA34 will be warned for powergaming.

Thank you for your report.

[Exotic]

Moved.