Camorro declares war on Lucky 7... Or not?

[Jan]

Hello everyone,

I am sure most of you are well aware of the IC tensions between Camorro and Lucky 7, the original plan was to announce what actions we would be taking against Lucky 7 yesterday, on the 1st of June.

On the 31st of May (one day before we wanted to make the announcement) I got contacted by Joe Joe and was invited to a Discord group chat, including both clan officers (although DVN seemed to be away) and Forgee, after having a chat with Joe Joe (and with Forgee but that one doesn't seem relevant), it came down to Joe Joe disallowing me (and thus Camorro) to announce anything on our planned date on the 1st of June and he would later contact me as to why, he did not keep his promise of contacting me and a couple of hours before I wanted to announce Camorro's actions I read about the sudden change of certain clans to groups, including Lucky 7, which was a clan before the change was announced.

With the current way of how groups work it is much harder for a clan to take any direct action. If you are unaware of the changes I refer to the threads Joe Joe posted in both the clan section and groups section.
I find it absolutely ridiculous how a clan officer instead of promoting and supporting clan activity is completely destroying it. Now it is painfully clear this change was done by biased staff members to safe a clan/group they stand behind.

You claim finding loopholes is against the rules, so I am asking you, why did you use this entire change which obviously is a loophole to defend a clan that obviously asked for IC action with the way they behave?

This thread was made so that the entire community knows and could form their own opinion instead of watching from the sideline, so if you have anything you wish to discuss regarding this topic I encourage you to do so by posting a reply on this thread.

[General Rickets]

Ima just go ahead and lol

[General Rickets]

I could scroll for pages through discord and find you arguing with me as to why Lucky 7 should be a clan and you furiously defended it to be a clan yet now you change this, why?

Other than to avoid an obvious war. I would also like to point out the disgraceful replies and such which followed from an "Official" clan which to be quite frank has disgraced the tag and all those who EARNED it.

[Yonno]

The fact that Lucky 7 was changed from a clan to a group while this "change" happened, is a big fucking lol to me.
Seems to me like someone is either loopholing to get "immunity" (which is still fucking stupid to me), or just a plain coward.

Edit: I've said it many times before when I was a staff member, clans and groups are a mess.

[Divey]

Hi Jan,

I can assure that the decision to revamp the groups/clan section was something that was a team discussion and was not the clan officers acting on their own. The reason as to why Joe Joe disallowed you to do any further action is due to the fact they wanted both parties to have clear evidence as to what they were saying, rather than throwing about false accusations in order to forcibly force a war in place. As a former Clan Officer you would know that Lucky 7 formerly being a [PAS] clan, they were not in the business of being in any wars as they were exactly that, passive. As well as the fact that a war already meeds to have consent from both parties before initiating.

On the topic of the new revamp, it barely effects anything. As it literally reads that groups can still go to war with a clan, however a group needs a clan to represent them in battle. What are passive clans or now groups meant to do in a war? Throw paper clips? It doesn't make any logical sense. This changes also benefit situations like these in the future as at this moment in time the threat of war was just going back and forward between clan and clan, however now with Lucky7 being a group it's forcing action to be taken place and for consequences to happen to those that are on the more vulnerable side. Quote from the changes 'In respect the clan in which is being abused by the group may put said group under FearRP to get them to restrict their actions and continue supplying them or stop slandering them. The only way a group can successfully get out of this ‘FearRP Bond’ is by either hiring another Clan to defend themselves (Which could result in a Clan war and the Group shutting down if the defending Clan losses) or the Clan could use other means to stop the actions of the group such as in-character negotiations such as court cases or fining. The ability to place the group under FearRP however must be confirmed by the reigning ‘Clan Officers’

This therefore, gets rid of any 'invulnerability' that otherwise existed in the past.

[Dragnort_]

Clearly a conflict of interest between two people here and using positions to get around the fact they don't want something to happen. This staff team needs a clear work around or maybe just a few select ones need to be re-evaluated and shown what should and shouldn't be done. Clearly this situation should've been left to continue until finished and then the rules could've been changed after the event took place.

When you can't beat 'em change the rules to win.

[Jan]

Hi Jan,

I can assure that the decision to revamp the groups/clan section was something that was a team discussion and was not the clan officers acting on their own. The reason as to why Joe Joe disallowed you to do any further action is due to the fact they wanted both parties to have clear evidence as to what they were saying, rather than throwing about false accusations in order to forcibly force a war in place. As a former Clan Officer you would know that Lucky 7 formerly being a [PAS] clan, they were not in the business of being in any wars as they were exactly that, passive. As well as the fact that a war already meeds to have consent from both parties before initiating.

The excuse of Lucky 7 being a passive clan is extremely invalid in the first place, you can't claim your clan is passive yet ally with an "aggresive" clan such as Camorro, it doesn't work like that.

When we announced us breaking our alliance Forgee's first reaction was "finally", which he later claimed was IC, that by itself is distasteful enough for us to take action on. 

I do not care if it was a team discussed decision, you all make yourself look completely biased and unbelievable by applying these changes one day before a potention war, how can't you see that?

[Dragnort_]

Honestly Clans and Groups should be able to go to war if they both understand what they're doing and comments made are aggressive or disrespectful to said clan/group.

[juicyorange]

you must treat lucky 7 like a clan, the law in real life does not work backwards so why should it work backwards here, allow the IC war to happen.

speaking about loopholes divey, heheheh.

[Joe Joe]

There were many players who gave influence for the overhaul of the Clan Guidelines as well as Group Guidelines. I remember Yonno, you highly disliked the invulnerability of 'Passive Clans' and the team had made discussion for the overhaul for some time and therefore as the Clan Officers we made a change. The aim is that strictly passive 'Clans' (Now Groups) would stay groups and they would no longer be 'Immune'. Previously a Passive Clan could continue to say 'No' to any War seeing as they would have no intention to go to war however this change both separates Passive and Aggressive more clearly while ensuring that Groups are no longer Immune and there are repercussions for their actions.

In regards to the issue with 'Lucky 7' and 'Camorro' we were meant to discuss the issue on the 30th of May where we could discuss the whole situation and inform you of the planned upcoming change. Sadly my counterpart couldn't make it so the meeting was postponed. In regards to you wanting to go to war, as I previously stated 'Lucky 7' would have just continued to say 'No' so there wouldn't have been a war.

There was no bias involved in this 'change', the change has been planned for some time and sadly we will not postpone change when we can make improvements immediately.