GreeD^

[Agorith]

I've updated the ban not to state ''Targetting'' as it lacks evidence, however the 2 day ban length was issued mainly due to the rules 4.1 & 4.5 being violated.

[Greed^]

GREED- Then explain why the other people with me shooting exactly the same people arent banned aswell

AGOR- You were the one who ultimately got banned for it due to you actually having been the one to kill him everytime.

GREED- so you're telling me it's not RDM as long as I don't kill them?

AGOR- It could be attempted RDM depending on the situation at hand, however the gundealer clearly had no intent to kill him as he just walked away after a few shots.

 What you’re doing here is focusing on the account that I killed the person. Of which I clearly did and which is proven in the logs. However if I hadn’t of killed ForcedGhost then it would have been FailRP on my behalf. A criminal’s last thing they want to do is get caught. Due to this why would I let ForceGhost go allowing him to freely converse with the police that I had put a gun to him and I am armed and dangerous? Equally, it would be powergaming for me to know that I had killed ForceGhost 5-10mins before this situation so either you’re requesting me to powergame to stop the ‘targeting’ or you’re wanting me to commit FailRP? Also let me remind you that if I left him behind, I would break the rule stating that I have to take care of my hostage

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GREED- I was standing next to them the first time phased when you shot him down.

AGOR- What reason? Getting arrested by him shortly before the deed had been done?

GREED- I warned them not to arrest me or I would kill them, benny then said "Try us", they then arrested me, I was unarrested but then shortly after warranted again by these two as far as I am aware, I then found benny and killed him, and forceghost was a witness to it and seeing as it's his partner, he had to die aswell so we could get away with murder. ¨

AGOR- ''4.5 You're not allowed to kill a police when you are arrested by him/her earlier unless you are part of an underground group who can hire a hitman.''
You were also not warranted at the time of you having killed them the first time.

Correct, as the rules clearly state I am part of an underground group which can hire a hitman. It however, doesn’t not state in the rules that I am required to get a hitman to do this deed. Equally, what you fail to mention is how I was with my Associate as a criminal he in fact was warranted during this which did allow me to perform the following actions. If you had checked the logs you would have known this.

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GREED- Wrong, if you would've bothered to actually investigate this, which you clearly didn't, you would've known that I pmed the gun dealer for his location as I needed rifle ammo
I followed no one, I went in there to buy ammo, I love how you didn't even ask for my reasons or investigate this

AGOR- I investigated it trough following him around as the second situation occured very shortly after the first, whilst you seem to be correct regarding having PM'd the gundealer, regardless of this fact you had no valid reason to kill him. ''Violence should always be the last option.''

GREED- then tell me how I could let him off and be 100% sure he wouldn't call for backup, knowing that we were all armed

AGOR- When held under FearRP he wouldn't be able to call for backup, you could have easily leave him in the room alive and drive off.
           You were triggerhappy, and there was absolutely no RP to it, and were more than happy to finish him off after having called him ''N*****''.
           People have been punished for such actions before and they'll continue to be.

Are you once again saying I should break another rule? You state that I could have’ left him in the room alive and drove off’ however in the hostaging rules it clearly states:

8.5 Once you have taken a hostage, you must look after them until they have submitted to your demands.
Equally, while he was under FeaRP yes he wouldn’t of been able to call for backup; that wasn’t the problem. The problem was the fact that after we left the he could have called for arrest warrants on us and then called for backup. I was hardly ‘triggerhappy’ I did what had to be done. Leave no witnesses, as soon as we left we’d of have arrest warrants on our heads which is obvious. The gun dealer wouldn’t of snitched on us as we just saved him from prison. I’d like to see some cases in hand where ‘people have been punished for such actions’ also that you’re referring to. I’d prefer id you didn’t just make allegations without proof.

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GREED- He obeyed FearRP troughout the whole situation following every command given swiftly. 

AGOR- Is relevant as we consider it a factor in the violation made. 

GREED- so if he didnt obey fearrp, I would have a better reason to kill him is what you're saying?

AGOR- Not at all what I'm saying, as that would be backseat administrating.
It just adds to the fact you had no valid reason to kill him.

 I had every reason to kill him, as stated above as soon as we left he’d be not under FearRP any-longer and can quite easily put an arrest warrant on us as you very well know.

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GREED- You clearly didn't investigate this fully, or actually care for my side of the story, this is so biased as you just believed them right away

AGOR- Again, I did not simply ''believe them right away'' and just blindly banned you, I followed the situations occuring and had discussed it with multiple other staff members who agreed on the decision to issue a ban. Regardless of whether or not you targetted him the second time you were still in violation.

GREED- then why are you lying and saying I followed him when what I really did was to show up to buy ammo

GREED- You keep saying how I'm only in violation the second time I killed him, then how is it targeting and 2x rdm if the first kill was valid?

AGOR- I'm not lying, as from where I was at the time with Force only having entered there and you showing up straight afterwards seemed like you were following him around targetting him OOC as you killed him right before that. Once again even with the mistake of adding targetting to the ban reason it does not excuse the other violation.

You have JUST lied again, are you being serious? You originally said in your first post ‘I decided to remain phased in order to see if this would continue and the concerns regarding being targetted were valid, and kept following ForceGhost around for a few minutes.’

Now you’re stating that you only just came into the situation when I entered the hotel. You equally state’you showing up straight afterwards seemed like you were following him’. If it only seemed like I was following him, why wouldn’t you have just asked me then on the admin roof regarding the situation?

You state I have broken rules 4.1 and 4.5. 


4.1 Do not kill people randomly (RDM); only kill with a valid roleplay reason, for example protecting your property during a raid, killing when your demands are not honoured as Corleone, etc. Violence should always be the last option.

As stated in the above it does say you cannot kill people randomly. This would be me killing someone for no reason. It states ‘only kill with a valid roleplay reason’. I have presented you with a valid roleplay reason. We are criminals; criminals are not mean’t to get caught and by keeping him alive only allows for us to get caught. Yes violence should be a last option however the only route that we could have taken was to remove him from existence so there was no witnesses to the crime we just committed. It would have been FailRP for us to keep him alive because as stated already Criminals last thing they want to do is get caught.

4.5 You're not allowed to kill a police when you are arrested by him/her earlier unless you are part of an underground group who can hire a hitman.

As stated in my new post to this thread, we are an underground group who are able to hire a hitman as we have connections to people just like we had the connection to the gun dealer where we acquire our guns.

[Greed^]

Waiting the ban out like usual?...

[Agorith]

If you want me to conclude this on my own, you'll remain banned so wouldn't be waiting out anything.

Figured we could leave the final conclusion with an SA.

[Agorith]

Since the SA's decide to abstain from concluding this:

Denied.