PassiveRP Overprotected

[Marty]

As I am sure most of you are aware, yet again merely looking the wrong way at a passiveRP is a banable offence.

Now there's a few points I would like to make before I go enter Rant mode. Firstly I  not against passiveRP nor am I against Agressive RP. Although I lean more towards Agressive as quite often passive can become rather boring.

Recently players were banned for throwing a Molotov into a Passive Roleplay, something I have done a few times but only when it fits with my RP, an example would be Mafia/Protection Racket RP which is quite fun if it's done right.

The issue I currently have is that we are seeing more bans/blacklists/warnings and punishments for as much as even looking at a passiveRP wrong.

Over and above that many players have a common misconception that if they build a shop it's automatically passive, wrong, if you build a shop for whatever means and use Agressive actions or employ security guards that can be seen with a gun, knife, ASP Batton, or even punches/manhandles people it's no longer passive. An example that I would like to use is a petrol station RP that was being run by a teacher, as I approached as a police I was screamed at via mic and LOOC that I was fuming a passiveRP even though there was a guy standing there with a knife....crazy.

Now the issues that most players have is admins are still enforcing unwritten rules, regardless of the case "players should know better" why should they receive punishment for something someone, somewhere has made up or simply pulled out of their ass ?

Here is a link to the rules: http://www.fearlessrp.net/rules.php

And here is a quote from NightHawkd who appears to have made up a rule.

Spoiler :

Ok. Ruining passiveRP has always been a punishable offence. It has been this way even when the old staff was around. The only time that aggressiveRP can "go into" passiveRP is if all sides are in agreement about it. So if you all agreed that it was fine then please show it as that will then invalidate this ban otherwise this ban is completely valid.

My request to the staff members of Fearless is firstly, please stop enforcing unwritten rules, secondly please stop protecting PassiveRP like every great is passive and the sun shines out of its arse, and lastly please stop treating Agressive RP like the worst thing to happen to mankind.

Also before I start getting hate from moderators or administrators this post is in no way meant to undermine or hate on you. The duties you carry out I respect however I do not respect unfairness.

[Baskingner]

I agree and disagree.
PassiveRP is something that cant defend itself. Weapons will always win in these cases and that just becomes boring. Its really annoying to have a shop and get robbed without any RP. 3 armed people come in, scream "GIMME $500 OR DIE" and then just leave. Thats not AggresiveRP, thats just being aggressive. This situation happens more and more often on the server and if people get punished for it in the future i wont mind.

Surely aggresiveRP is enjoyable but when its ONLY enjoyable for the aggressor it is something where you should be careful for. People doing aggressiveRP need to realise that youre talking to an actual player, not an NPC, while burning down a store where someone worked on.

On the other hand i find it weird that people can get banned for stuff that isnt in the rules. How are we supposed to know what we can and cant do? A ban is put in place as a form of punishment, but what good does punishment do if we dont know what is and is not against the rules? Staff should discuss this rule, preferably with the community, to come to an agreement on what is, and isnt allowed. That way confusing situations will be prevented along with a shitload of drama.

[Marty]

I agree and disagree.
PassiveRP is something that cant defend itself. Weapons will always win in these cases and that just becomes boring. Its really annoying to have a shop and get robbed without any RP. 3 armed people come in, scream "GIMME $500 OR DIE" and then just leave. Thats not AggresiveRP, thats just being aggressive. This situation happens more and more often on the server and if people get punished for it in the future i wont mind.

Surely aggresiveRP is enjoyable but when its ONLY enjoyable for the aggressor it is something where you should be careful for. People doing aggressiveRP need to realise that youre talking to an actual player, not an NPC, while burning down a store where someone worked on.

On the other hand i find it weird that people can get banned for stuff that isnt in the rules. How are we supposed to know what we can and cant do? A ban is put in place as a form of punishment, but what good does punishment do if we dont know what is and is not against the rules? Staff should discuss this rule, preferably with the community, to come to an agreement on what is, and isnt allowed. That way confusing situations will be prevented along with a shitload of drama.

I disagree I think that passiveRP can be protected by the player and most situations can be dealt with IC. If someone comes in to rob you and you are in the Main Street then your chances greatly improve of survival etc however there's nothing to stop you from playing it out. /me presses silent alarm etc act out before giving the player the money. By which point the police will have been there hopefully etc,

In a city were there are guns the level of violent crime is going to be higher.

[Baskingner]

-Snip-

I disagree I think that passiveRP can be protected by the player and most situations can be dealt with IC. If someone comes in to rob you and you are in the Main Street then your chances greatly improve of survival etc however there's nothing to stop you from playing it out. /me presses silent alarm etc act out before giving the player the money. By which point the police will have been there hopefully etc,

In a city were there are guns the level of violent crime is going to be higher.

In theory sure, but in reality that is wishful thinking at best. I think we all know that police response time is highly inconsistant. Raids are often over within 1 minute and even faster when the aggresor knows that police is on the way. the "/me pressing silent alarm" can be read by the aggressor and very often he will metagame and tell the storeowner to hurry up. Officially its metagaming but its impossible to prove and very easy to get away with.

Furthermore, the policeforce is often horribly underequipped to deal with 4 corleones armed with Galils. Policeforces showing up midraid usually gets the storeowner hostaged and the shop being shot to pieces as a gunfight of 5 minutes isnt rare in these situatuons. In the rare situation that the cops actually win the storeowner is often shot or taken away in a hostagecar to enforce demands on.

Like it or not, but this is reality and it happens way too often.

[Danny Boy]

Honestly man, i don't agree with you saying that passive rp is treated better than aggressive as most of the staff / teachers actually do aggressive rp most of the time.

Secondly, i agree that unwritten rules should have some kind of 'guide / rule' created to be able to enforce them legitimately.

Thirdly, i think that the aggressive / passive rp clash is fine the way it is. People who generally do passive like me, prefer people not to come moloving my base when i rarely know why, but thats just me i guess.

I see where you are coming from man, and i do think it could be possible to get a rule stated to enforce these problems properly

[Mist]

Also before I start getting hate from moderators or administrators this post is in no way meant to undermine or hate on you. 

You're literally pooring more salt into the wound. Please don't, sir.

[Marty]

Also before I start getting hate from moderators or administrators this post is in no way meant to undermine or hate on you. 

You're literally pooring more salt into the wound. Please don't, sir.

Well if anyone takes offence to this post they have two options A. Cry into a pillow and eat Ice Cream or B. Act like a grown up, send me a message about why they've taken offence to it...as TBH there's nothing written in here that should upset anyone.

[Marty]

Honestly man, i don't agree with you saying that passive rp is treated better than aggressive.

We all know that statement is far from true. If I want my prop limit increased for a passive RP the chances are it will either be granted or at least you will be replied to. If I want my prop limit increased as I have a dupe that greatly enhances the Corleonne neighbourhood which makes it look a lot less shit, I won't even get a reply and instead no doubt ridiculed in a private teamspeak/chat with other staff members.

On top of that if I put in @ I am being raided, %l passive RP. An admin will be there, visible, physgun and TPing players to the roof, however if I put this guy is raiding without a valid Roleplay reason and is breaking FearRP...you'll be lucky if I get a turn out. (This has happened btw)

[Holdem]

I disagree that Passive RP is more protected than Aggressive RP. The problem is that 80% of people on our servers don't know how to RP properly. 10% do excellent Passive RP and 10% do excellent Aggressive RP. The objective isn't to stop the "10% Aggressive RP'ers" from attacking the "10% Passive RP'ers", the objective is to stop the 80% that think holding a gun automatically counts as RP from running crazy into a school just because he thinks his job is to rob people and destroy things, without any background reason.

Also, having a shop doesn't automatically make you a "Passive RP'er". "Passive RP" is, for example, holding a fishing competition. If you're organising a fishing competition with say 5-10 people, it wouldn't make sense for some rebels to come guns blazing like "Yo give us all $500". If you have a fish stand in the city and someone tries to rob you, then it's part of the risks of having a store open.

This is why it's impossible to have a written set of rules that covers absolutely everything, because there are exceptions. Ultimately, the staff team has the say in what is acceptable and what isn't, since there are just too many scenarios for us to make a ruling on all of them or write a rule about them all.

[Hitman]

The fact of the matter is we can not physically write down every little thing into the rules. The rule page would be the length of an encyclopedia. A lot of the things that are "unwritten" have been generally accepted within the community for months even years now.

Can we do something to improve AggressiveRP and PassiveRP relations? The answer is yes. But we as a staff team can not simply say "yup relations are good now. They need to mingle." Most "AggressiveRP" now days has no RP in it to begin with. It's just kill farming in a base. Finding a way to interact between the two within the rules is up to the players. We lay the framework not build the house. Can some situations be handled differently by both the players and the staff? Yes they can and believe me when I say we as a team want nothing more than the betterment and good health of the community which is why things like this are constantly in internal discussion.

Hitman
Fearless Administrator