UBR: Multiple people [SuperAdmins welcome]

[taXXeN22]

Your name: [FL:RP] taXXeN22, [FL:RP] Moon, [FL:RP] Bobby |

Your SteamID:  STEAM_0:0:34303029 ; STEAM_0:0:43436378 ; STEAM_0:1:96647533

Your ban ID:  70056 ; 70057 ; 70058

Banned by:  [FL] Pear 

Reason:  RDM, Baiting

Involved:  Me, Moon, Bobby| , Baskingner, ]DJ[ Orange and some other officer who shot first.

Why we should unban you: Well. Let me explain the whole situation. Me and Bobby were having a chat with police sergeant (Baskingher) who ran over our friend. Once we finished and the sergeant drove away, another officer arrives (Orange), Bobby and Moon have some sort of conversation with him which somehow finishes in threat to leave the place, which he did. Then, we drived towards the city, saw some officer coming back with ELS on and we thought it was Orange trying to follow us, so we pulled him over and got him out of car. He previously called backup, because he was followed by 2 police cars with ELS on. We got Orange under a gunpoint and yelled to other officers to put their weapons down, or the officer will die. They refused to do it for around 30 seconds or more, and then some other officer opened fire for no reason (sadly did not get his name, but you can check logs, it happened around 02/25/2016 12-45 GMT +- 10 minutes). So we had to kill the officer as police side opened a gunfire FIRST, when WE had the officer and demanded to put their guns away. So technically, it was fail from POLICE, we did not bait anyone, but they DID. I do not see our fault here. 

https://youtu.be/H9j8pPpyuEo

-EDIT-
Sorry for bad quality, I dont know why did that happen, maybe some problems with recording software, but vital info is here

[Bobby |]

You can see that Around 4:10 a shot was fired by the Police officer in the distance.
And Around 4:15 They opened fire at us.

[Baskingner]

Involved.

You guys had this coming. You take every excuse you can to engage officers in a gunfight and this time your reason to do so just wasnt valid. I will comment on your UBR in parts:

1. Me driving over Bobby had nothing to do with this entire situation. You being OOC friends with bobby doesnt mean youre his IC friend. If i remember correctly he was a carwasher and you guys were criminals. How exactly did you guys become friends if i may ask?

2. If you see an officer with his ELS lights on is not a reason to pull him out of his car and hostage him. He might have been on an entirely different business and your assumption that he was after you was simply not a valid reason to pull out your guns and kill the entire police force.

3. The police man in question shot you because on of your guys advanced on him with a gun raised. You cant expect an officer to holster his gun when you have yours aimed at him, thats simply not how it works.

At last i have to say there was 0 attempt from you guys to RP this out. I yelled multiple times if you guys had any demands and that we could resolve this peacecfully but there was no respond other then "PUT YOUR GUN DOWN'. It is clear that you guys like aggresive RP but this wasnt RP, this was simply gunning officers down because you felt like it.

I think this ban is completely valid and hopefully in future you guys will do this differently.

EDIT: at 03:17 you guys even say "lets kill some suckers". This gunfight was planned by you guys solely because you wanted to shoot officers and therefore invalid.

[taXXeN22]

Involved.

You guys had this coming. You take every excuse you can to engage officers in a gunfight and this time your reason to do so just wasnt valid. I will comment on your UBR in parts:

1. Me driving over Bobby had nothing to do with this entire situation. You being OOC friends with bobby doesnt mean youre his IC friend. If i remember correctly he was a carwasher and you guys were criminals. How exactly did you guys become friends if i may ask


2. If you see an officer with his ELS lights on is not a reason to pull him out of his car and hostage him. He might have been on an entirely different business and your assumption that he was after you was simply not a valid reason to pull out your guns and kill the entire police force.

3. The police man in question shot you because on of your guys advanced on him with a gun raised. You cant expect an officer to holster his gun when you have yours aimed at him, thats simply not how it works.

1. Complete lie.
You never drove over Bobby. Bobby was a criminal and he was alive, you ran over Jonas. And yes, three of us were IG friends. And since when cant car washer cant be a friend of a man? We never gave you any punishment or threat for running him over, by the way. You just drove away in peace, and no one was hostile towards you.

2. When officer drove away, in about 5 seconds he comes back, that is why we decided it was him, and we actually remembered his IC Face and number plates, so the situation was clear for us? He was about to track us and give us punishment

3. We never advanced more than the end of a tunnel. And you did fail to cope with our demands, but you were constantly yelling 'what are your demands.' But for some reason you decided to ignore them. We yelled like 10 times to put your guns down, but you refused. Taking one step towards you is not a reason to pull a trigger, especially when we have officer's life in our hands.

[taXXeN22]

EDIT: at 03:17 you guys even say "lets kill some suckers". This gunfight was planned by you guys solely because you wanted to shoot officers and therefore invalid.

 
My character was russian criminal. The phrase  I said 'lets kill some cyka's' meant that we are going to go to city and try to mug someone, and we never planned a shootout with a police force.

[Baskingner]

Snip

1. Complete lie.
You never drove over Bobby. Bobby was a criminal and he was alive, you ran over Jonas. And yes, three of us were IG friends. And since when cant car washer cant be a friend of a man? We never gave you any punishment or threat for running him over, by the way. You just drove away in peace, and no one was hostile towards you.

2. When officer drove away, in about 5 seconds he comes back, that is why we decided it was him, and we actually remembered his IC Face and number plates, so the situation was clear for us? He was about to track us and give us punishment

3. We never advanced more than the end of a tunnel. And you did fail to cope with our demands, but you were constantly yelling 'what are your demands.' But for some reason you decided to ignore them. We yelled like 10 times to put your guns down, but you refused. Taking one step towards you is not a reason to pull a trigger, especially when we have officer's life in our hands.

1. Excuse me, i mixed up Bobby and Jonas then. Can i ask how you guys exactly are friends? you had totally different jobs and when i drove over Jonas only he was there together with a college of mine. You guys arrived later and were just standing around. 

2. He can drive back all he wants. You guys cant just kill an officer for coming towards you. In the video it actually seems like he is cycling trough his EMS lights and made no attempt to engage you guys. 

3. Your demands were unreasonable (lowering guns) and there was made no attempt to cool down the sitation from your side. Im all for hostageRP's but there was no RP to be had with you guys.


Also i would like to add, are you guys using a 3rd party communicator to communicate with eachother in this video? This would class as metagaming and is against the rules.
ive said it before and will post it here again:

[taXXeN22]

Snip

1. Complete lie.
You never drove over Bobby. Bobby was a criminal and he was alive, you ran over Jonas. And yes, three of us were IG friends. And since when cant car washer cant be a friend of a man? We never gave you any punishment or threat for running him over, by the way. You just drove away in peace, and no one was hostile towards you.

2. When officer drove away, in about 5 seconds he comes back, that is why we decided it was him, and we actually remembered his IC Face and number plates, so the situation was clear for us? He was about to track us and give us punishment

3. We never advanced more than the end of a tunnel. And you did fail to cope with our demands, but you were constantly yelling 'what are your demands.' But for some reason you decided to ignore them. We yelled like 10 times to put your guns down, but you refused. Taking one step towards you is not a reason to pull a trigger, especially when we have officer's life in our hands.

1. Excuse me, i mixed up Bobby and Jonas then. Can i ask how you guys exactly are friends? you had totally different jobs and when i drove over Jonas only he was there together with a college of mine. You guys arrived later and were just standing around. 

2. He can drive back all he wants. You guys cant just kill an officer for coming towards you. In the video it actually seems like he is cycling trough his EMS lights and made no attempt to engage you guys. 

3. Your demands were unreasonable (lowering guns) and there was made no attempt to cool down the sitation from your side. Im all for hostageRP's but there was no RP to be had with you guys.


Also i would like to add, are you guys using a 3rd party communicator to communicate with eachother in this video? This would class as metagaming and is against the rules.
ive said it before and will post it here again:

1. So by your posts you mean that a chef and car dealer cant be friends? Thats silly. And I was there all the time, in fact, that was MY car he washed.

2. We never killed him, we brought him out and were about to threat him one more time not to follow us.

3. I dont even know how to reply to that. If 'lower your guns' is not a demand for you, you are the one who doesnt know how to RP.

4. We never used teamspeak to give each other any vital IC information, we are just using it for a friendly chat. So there is no metagaming here.

[Pear]

Hello,
reviewed evidence. In this evidence it shows:
1. You all lockpicking each other vehicles for no reason at all.
2. You all baiting police with weapons drawn at all times, trying to get in conflict knowing with huge weaponry you'll mow police down. Starting fight for NO reason at all.
3. You started shooting at each other for no reason at all. (at 2:20 in the video)
4. You shot policeman for no reason again. (at 3:10 in the video)
5. You shot first. Guy with MP5 behind you (at 3:35), you can hear it, but I've saw it with my own eyes, I was there.
6. You're using 3rd party software to communicate between each other and responding to it in-game.
7. You went right after him to "kill some sukas", basically searching for trouble.
8. You proceed to make a hostage situation for no appearent reason.

Edit: Re-opened.

Tell me your point of view.

[taXXeN22]

Hello,
reviewed evidence. In this evidence it shows:
1. You all lockpicking each other vehicles for no reason at all.
2. You all baiting police with weapons drawn at all times, trying to get in conflict knowing with huge weaponry you'll mow police down. Starting fight for NO reason at all.
3. You started shooting at each other for no reason at all. (at 2:20 in the video)
4. You shot policeman for no reason again. (at 3:10 in the video)
5. You shot first. Guy with MP5 behind you (at 3:35), you can hear it, but I've saw it with my own eyes, I was there.
6. You're using 3rd party software to communicate between each other and responding to it in-game.
7. You went right after him to "kill some sukas", basically searching for trouble.
8. You proceed to make a hostage situation for no appearent reason.

1. Toolguns. No lockpicks.
2. RP situation, we dont want police to disturb us so we tell them to leave us.
3. One single missclick is not shooting at each other, as only 1 bullet was shot, and the shooter was clearly aiming at the ground.
4. In my point of view, shot came from the police side. Also baskingher says that in his first post, Statement #3 : ''officer shot you"
5. Reason to open fire is because police did open fire first.
6. No vital information, in my opinion, was given in 3rd party software. We just used it to have a friendly conversation. Bobby does not have his mic on push-to-talk in TS, so his voice duplicated.
7. I already explained it above.
8. The reason is also stated above, please review it more carefully and tell me your opinion about it.

My additions: 
1) No admin sit was given, whereas it should've been in my opinion. Punishing people with no letting them to explain is not the way.
2) I am requesting 3rd party staff member ( Admin or SA) to review the case, as me and Pear have different opinions on the situation and truth can not be found between us.

[Pear]

1. Just a question, WHY?
2. Basically flashing guns out to show power, but with that causing unnecessary conflicts, baiting them in.
3. Hold on, you're friends with each other IC and OOC and you cause conflict between yourself, even aiming guns at each other and shooting each other. Why is that?
4. Watch the video again on 3:10. If that's not randomly shooting at the police car to start a war I don't know what is. It's not a missclick.
5. Not true. Guy behind you shot first THEN the policeman shot.
6. If there is no vital information what was "I'm almost dead" information there? Of course it hints to your friends to advance and help you.
7. Fair enough.
8. So, because an officer (the same) is going back with the flashing lights means that you can hostage him? What if he was on a call, give me that perspective? With that you basically hostaged a man with "thinking that he was coming for you".