UBR - Nevy

[Nevy]

Your Name: Nevy

Your SteamID: STEAM_0:0:18452963

Your ban ID: 69432

Banned by: [FL] Avgar

Reason: 2.1e Running into the middle of a raid as a citizen

Involved: Multiple individuals.

Why we should unban you: 

Synopsis

Joined the server, saw that the server was in a state of chaos as vehicles were barreling down the street running people down and blowing up into other vehicles (Confirmed via logs) and hence I took the opportunity to get out to get my camera out and record events unfolding in my own form of NewsRP. I witnessed CDM and me, along with several individuals, chased the unknown assailant into the Tides Hotel where we surrounded him. He pulled out a weapon, M3 Shotgun to be precise, and as we backed away he fired on an officer who ran up into the Tides Hotel to pursue him. At this point, the criminal had retreated into the Tides hallway where he took protection after seeing multiple police and SWAT moving into the Tides Hotel and take control of the upper lobby area. I positioned myself behind law enforcement and was acting as a camera-man recording the event(s) that were unfolding. Other individuals in the upper area, including one in the 1st hotel room had taken their cameras out to capture the incursion by law enforcement teams. The criminal was hit several times and had retreated into the middle apartment room where he ran inside to possibly perform medical procedures as police and SWAT were moving in. Considering this cease-fire I had repositioned myself at the other side of the Tides Hotel in order to capture the police and SWAT moving into the middle room, which happened so swiftly and the assailant had been terminated inside his apartment. Immediately after the man was killed, I had been brought up onto the roof where the SA [FL] Avgar had informed me that I was currently in violation of rule 2.1e that states that Citizens are not permitted to be in areas that they consider life-threatening or bring a possibility of death. The ban reason stating that I "ran into the middle of a raid" when actually I was performing my own individual role-play and had been there before the police arrived on scene and never actually put myself in harms way as I repositioned myself when I knew the criminal had moved into his room and police were safely moving forward with SWAT leading with riot shields. I was mirroring what the job of a "Nightcrawler" is, which is someone that puts themselves at the scene first and captures raw footage of incidents to then sell thereafter. Being in harms way is apart of the job. Being on the roof allowed [FL] Avgar to input his opinion of the role-play where he stated that such things only exist in movies and are unrealistic, however this is not the case as this is actually a quite common thing. I argued this point however [FL] Avgar did not budge on his opinion of it and from thence argued the point that I was in a life-threatening situation and that is against the rules as a Citizen. I certainly found this to be pushing it and made me consider whether his perspective, likely being phased from an aerial position, gave him a different view of what I saw from a 1st person perspective. Was my character in harms way? That is certainly a good question and if so it could have been handled IC'ly as the job of law enforcement in a situation like that is to remove everyone from the area. My character saw the criminal retreat into his room and only after the firing had stopped for some time did I move (sprint) to the other side of the Hotel hallway. Did I get killed? No. Did I get shot? No. You emphasized the part of the run that says Citizens shall not loiter in these situations yet it was part of my role-play and as such gives me reason to be there and is different than just someone standing there to see law enforcement being shot. I made sure I was not in harms way. I find it hard to believe that such a conclusion can be drawn that simply because I was in the same area I was somehow at risk of being killed and really brings up the question of what can be considered life-threatening. However I wish to contest this ban and have it removed from my record as I contest the claim that I "ran into a raid" as a Citizen when infact I had been there reporting for my RP and never once entered into a life-threatening situation (ie. running into the line of fire, chasing the suspect into his hotel room). 

Thanks,
Nevy

[Avgar]

Joined the server, saw that the server was in a state of chaos as vehicles were barreling down the street running people down and blowing up into other vehicles (Confirmed via logs) and hence I took the opportunity to get out to get my camera out and record events unfolding in my own form of NewsRP. I witnessed CDM and me, along with several individuals, chased the unknown assailant into the Tides Hotel where we surrounded him.

If you wished to do your own form of NewsRP, you ought to have set your job accordingly and not stayed a citizen.

He pulled out a weapon, M3 Shotgun to be precise, and as we backed away he fired on an officer who ran up into the Tides Hotel to pursue him. At this point, the criminal had retreated into the Tides hallway where he took protection after seeing multiple police and SWAT moving into the Tides Hotel and take control of the upper lobby area.

As a citizen, you were following a situation that you knew involved a criminal with a shotgun. Is that dangerous? I think so.

I positioned myself behind law enforcement and was acting as a camera-man recording the event(s) that were unfolding. Other individuals in the upper area, including one in the 1st hotel room had taken their cameras out to capture the incursion by law enforcement teams. The criminal was hit several times and had retreated into the middle apartment room where he ran inside to possibly perform medical procedures as police and SWAT were moving in.

I saw this transpire and I did not act when you were standing behind the officers. I thought, it's a dangerous situation, but if you don't rush in then it won't be too blatant of a rulebreak of 2.1e.

Considering this cease-fire I had repositioned myself at the other side of the Tides Hotel in order to capture the police and SWAT moving into the middle room, which happened so swiftly and the assailant had been terminated inside his apartment.

The ceasefire lasted for just a couple of seconds, you ran through the officers aiming down the hall, which could have shot at any second. You didn't even look back, you kept your camera up to your face and ran forward. This is where I though 'Alright, he just ran inbetween the two fighting sides, which is clearly breaking 2.1e'.

Immediately after the man was killed, I had been brought up onto the roof where the SA [FL] Avgar had informed me that I was currently in violation of rule 2.1e that states that Citizens are not permitted to be in areas that they consider life-threatening or bring a possibility of death.

Concerning the man getting killed, I'm not too sure about that, but I did bring you up to the rooftop as soon as you reached the end of the Tides hotel (the gate looking wall).

The ban reason stating that I "ran into the middle of a raid" when actually I was performing my own individual role-play and had been there before the police arrived on scene and never actually put myself in harms way as I repositioned myself when I knew the criminal had moved into his room and police were safely moving forward with SWAT leading with riot shields.

If we allow players to carry out their own individual roleplays without setting their job properly the servers would be even more chaotic than they tend to get these days. The reason why I added 'ran into the middle of a raid' is because you ran in between the two fighting sides.

I was mirroring what the job of a "Nightcrawler" is, which is someone that puts themselves at the scene first and captures raw footage of incidents to then sell thereafter. Being in harms way is apart of the job.

If you wanted to do that roleplay it would be fine as long as you set your custom job and not stayed a citizen.

Being on the roof allowed [FL] Avgar to input his opinion of the role-play where he stated that such things only exist in movies and are unrealistic, however this is not the case as this is actually a quite common thing. I argued this point however [FL] Avgar did not budge on his opinion of it and from thence argued the point that I was in a life-threatening situation and that is against the rules as a Citizen.

You're twisting words here a bit. You were the one that brought up how it's done in movies and I answered something along the lines of 'Sure, it can be done in movies, but this isn't a movie'. Concerning considering the situation life threatening, yes, I still believe that what happened and what you did was life threatening.

I certainly found this to be pushing it and made me consider whether his perspective, likely being phased from an aerial position, gave him a different view of what I saw from a 1st person perspective. Was my character in harms way? That is certainly a good question and if so it could have been handled IC'ly as the job of law enforcement in a situation like that is to remove everyone from the area.

The thing is, you were already in a threatening situation by being behind those officers and taking pictures as a regular citizen. By running in between the two sides of the raid, you put yourself into even more danger. It could be handled in character, but we have a rule for this for a reason.

My character saw the criminal retreat into his room and only after the firing had stopped for some time did I move (sprint) to the other side of the Hotel hallway. Did I get killed? No. Did I get shot? No.

Regardless if you got shot or injured, you were in a dangerous situation.

You emphasized the part of the run that says Citizens shall not loiter in these situations yet it was part of my role-play and as such gives me reason to be there and is different than just someone standing there to see law enforcement being shot.

Simply having background roleplay reasons for doing things does not exclude you from following rules. If you had changed your job, I would not have picked you up, but you did it as a citizen.

The following is server logs of you admitting that it was a mistake you did not set your job properly:
v2d [20:58:16] [FL] Avgar (STEAM_0:0:19437228) said: .//It may have been your RP, but you were a citizen, running in front of gunfire that JUST stopped
v2d [20:58:26] nevy (STEAM_0:0:18452963) said: .// I was safe in my opinion
v2d [20:58:32] nevy (STEAM_0:0:18452963) said: .// but if you want to force your opinion onto my RP
v2d [20:58:34] nevy (STEAM_0:0:18452963) said: .// Go ahead
v2d [20:58:40] [FL] Avgar (STEAM_0:0:19437228) said: .//Force my own opinion?
v2d [20:58:44] nevy (STEAM_0:0:18452963) said: .// Yeah
v2d [20:59:03] [FL] Avgar (STEAM_0:0:19437228) said: .//You think 2.1e was not in effect?
v2d [20:59:15] nevy (STEAM_0:0:18452963) said: .// So my entire RP would be allwoed and counter 2.1e if my job title was not 'Citizen'
v2d [20:59:26] nevy (STEAM_0:0:18452963) said: .// I already made the notion that it was my mistake
v2d [20:59:42] nevy (STEAM_0:0:18452963) said: .// I wasn't a Citizen but rather a first responding newsman who gets the real raw footage
v2d [20:59:52] nevy (STEAM_0:0:18452963) said: .// they are always in danger IRL
v2d [20:59:55] [FL] Avgar (STEAM_0:0:19437228) said: .//Which means you did break the rule, because of your mistake.

I made sure I was not in harms way.

If you had to make sure you were not in harms way that must mean that the situation was dangerous to your life, which, again, is not allowed to be done if you're a citizen.

I find it hard to believe that such a conclusion can be drawn that simply because I was in the same area I was somehow at risk of being killed and really brings up the question of what can be considered life-threatening.

When I saw you standing behind the officers I took no action. What made me take action is when you rushed forward after the firing had stopped for a few seconds, passing the door of the criminal. If rushing in front of guns that just stopped firing and in-between two fighting sides is not life threatening, then, tell me, what is?

However I wish to contest this ban and have it removed from my record as I contest the claim that I "ran into a raid" as a Citizen when infact I had been there reporting for my RP and never once entered into a life-threatening situation (ie. running into the line of fire, chasing the suspect into his hotel room).

Perhaps the wording of the ban is not perfect, but what I meant was 'you ran inbetween two raiding sides', which, to me, at the time, sounded like 'middle of the raid'. Regardless if you were there at the beginning or not, you didn't run INTO the hotel room, but you ran THROUGH it, TRUSTING that the criminal won't just pop right out of the room. Your belief of being not in harms way is based on nothing more than assumption.

[Volimius]

User has been warned for this post. Reason:

And u might want to change your rank, cuz u know, ur not an admin anymore

-Not involved, warned.-
-Avgar

[Gog]

-Invovled-

I was at the scene at the time and Nevy was standing not too close to the gun fire but a place of safety. Sometimes he would go closer but he was still always in a safe place.

[Avgar]

-Invovled-

I was at the scene at the time and Nevy was standing not too close to the gun fire but a place of safety. Sometimes he would go closer but he was still always in a safe place.

How is it safe to run through the line of fire that was broken just for a few seconds? Even by being behind the officers he was very questionably safe.

Citizens ought not loiter around raids. He was just that. A citizen.

[Gog]

-Invovled-

I was at the scene at the time and Nevy was standing not too close to the gun fire but a place of safety. Sometimes he would go closer but he was still always in a safe place.

How is it safe to run through the line of fire that was broken just for a few seconds? Even by being behind the officers he was very questionably safe.

Citizens ought not loiter around raids. He was just that. A citizen.

He was at a safe distance, there were many people crowded around.

[Avgar]

How is it safe to run through the line of fire that was broken just for a few seconds? Even by being behind the officers he was very questionably safe.

Citizens ought not loiter around raids. He was just that. A citizen.

He was at a safe distance, there were many people crowded around.

Have you read the bolded text?

Nevy ran forward, in between the government force and the criminal. By doing so, he put himself into even more danger as the ceasefire only lasted a few seconds and could have continued at any point.

[Gog]

How is it safe to run through the line of fire that was broken just for a few seconds? Even by being behind the officers he was very questionably safe.

Citizens ought not loiter around raids. He was just that. A citizen.

He was at a safe distance, there were many people crowded around.

Have you read the bolded text?

Nevy ran forward, in between the government force and the criminal. By doing so, he put himself into even more danger as the ceasefire only lasted a few seconds and could have continued at any point.

Sorry, I never remembered a fire?

[Avgar]

By doing so, he put himself into even more danger as the ceasefire only lasted a few seconds and could have continued at any point.

Sorry, I never remembered a fire?

[Image: f3ad483e0b.png]

[Avgar]

I will wait until Monday (2016-02-01 12:00 GMT+0) and if no other statements are made until then I will reach the verdict.