[FL] Nighthawk's alteration of the rules pt.1

[Old Man Jokhah]

Nighthawkd is an administrator, not a super moderator.  I'm not going to reveal the system, it's ranks, and explain how he was able to perform the edit. (Hint, admins can edit any post, part of admin powers, take off tin hats).  However I'm wondering when you guys are going to put up new evidence.  Allow me to repeat.

Your evidence about his edit has already been invalidated.  

The edit you guys have tried to accuse him of making, I did years ago.

The evidence present was also "mishandled" or "mispresented".


Now instead of fixing that major hole, you guys are trying to get to the bottom of who is lying.  Since I was an administrator when I performed my edit, obviously any admin CAN edit those posts.  An admin is required to have PERMISSION to edit the post, but has the PERMISSIONS to edit it.  Do you see what I'm getting at?  The system lets you edit, the boss doesn't, and for good reason I might add.

Trying to hinge your case, on a minor wording problem, AFTER the primary foundation for your case has been debunked, is clutching at straws.  If you do not have a case to stand on, don't try to build a new one here, go collect yourselves and make a new one properly.

P.S.  Still waiting on Soul to do something with this, as he has no remaining SA team at this point this case could sit here a while.  I encourage you to use the time you have to either present new evidence as you said you would, or wait till my claim gets investigated, found to be true backed by logs, and this case gets thrown right into the trashcan.  Different issues require different threads, much like how ban reports require you to make a new one per person.

did you look at my post before spouting that out of your ass? or do you not need to look at all the evidence because you're that good of a detective.

Again, the original post has not only posted bad evidence, they have made a blind accusation against him. Did you change the title and nature of this abuse case from tampering the rules to something else? Because if you haven't, there is no reason for me to consider anything else. This case's evidence is invalid, based on hearsay, and I've already came out and claimed responsiblity for the "changes" Nighthawkd has been accused of making. Do you have a single counterpoint to that arguement or are you just trying to go on and on about how now he said something that he wouldn't have even said seeing as the case against him here is busted completely open.

This case is a lie at this point. Evidence was mispresented, the claim against him invalidated as he didn't do it. What else is there to consider, magically, after the main post has been busted? Nothing? I thought not. IF you have another case against him, feel free to open it. This case is about "altering the rules," which he didn't do.

Did I restate myself enough for you to process it and understand yet? Seriously, dead horse around here. It's like "Hey, you've been proven wrong, sorry." and instead of acceptance it's "Well he's rude, he's this, he's that, I don't care that you pointed out we are full of poop." That's not how it works.

Just so you people are aware. I'm not going away, I will be here every single day, pointing out that this case is already busted and waiting on staff. Unless you come up with a counter point, I will continue to restate myself every single time you try to avoid the issue. I don't care how it makes anyone look at or feel about me. This case is a lie, it's based on work I did here, and I'm not going to let someone else, I don't care who, get in trouble for actions I took here during my time as an administrator. This is your warning.

[User 12049]

I am the owner of said admin abuse case. If any information would like to be asked of me please forward it to me I am more than happy to help.

[Old Man Jokhah]

Well, as I stated clearly before. The information provided in your case has been falsified and you've been asked for weeks now to fix it. It still isn't fixed.

1: The two images linked to relate a "before and after" picture are from two different areas of the forums. To do a proper before and after you would need two images, before and after, of the exact same area of the forums.

and more importantly

2: I'm the administrator who was authorized years ago to make the specific edit in question. I changed lengthy ban to perm ban, under the direction of SA Killjoy, some years ago. Nighthawkd didn't make the edit in question and how one of my edits was reverted and not another is an oversight from the staff, not the fault of Nighthawkd.

This case is void, as I'm the one who made the edit that Night is accused of editing, and further I push for tampering of evidence as it has been weeks since the issue was pointed out and it still has not been resolved. Attempting to push for corrective actions on a person (player/staff) while using falsified evidence is a violation of forum rules. I attempted weeks ago to get this corrected, to which the head poster said he would contact you. Weather or not any contact was made, the responsibility was on your collective group to fix and that fix still hasn't been made to the time of this post.

Since all parties have been notified for an extended period of time, I'm failing to see why no actions have been taken thus far.

[User 12049]

Well, as I stated clearly before. The information provided in your case has been falsified and you've been asked for weeks now to fix it. It still isn't fixed.

1: The two images linked to relate a "before and after" picture are from two different areas of the forums. To do a proper before and after you would need two images, before and after, of the exact same area of the forums.

and more importantly

2: I'm the administrator who was authorized years ago to make the specific edit in question. I changed lengthy ban to perm ban, under the direction of SA Killjoy, some years ago. Nighthawkd didn't make the edit in question and how one of my edits was reverted and not another is an oversight from the staff, not the fault of Nighthawkd.

This case is void, as I'm the one who made the edit that Night is accused of editing, and further I push for tampering of evidence as it has been weeks since the issue was pointed out and it still has not been resolved. Attempting to push for corrective actions on a person (player/staff) while using falsified evidence is a violation of forum rules. I attempted weeks ago to get this corrected, to which the head poster said he would contact you. Weather or not any contact was made, the responsibility was on your collective group to fix and that fix still hasn't been made to the time of this post.

Since all parties have been notified for an extended period of time, I'm failing to see why no actions have been taken thus far.

Thank you for so kindly replying for Nighthawk it is much appreacted.

However, you were an admin rank at the time. Which gave you equal powers to Nighthawk. Equally, Nevy was also. You both clearly state you were able to edit the player report(s) as you even stated yourself you edited it.

Due to this, you have admitted that Nighthawk was able to edit the rules, even though he clearly states that he couldn't. This is not to say he did it though. However, I can prove that he did alter the player report rules:


Now, we can clearly see that two ex-admins have stated they can alter the rules that are of that thread and we also have proof that Nighthawk did infact alter that thread.

EVEN IF, NightHawk the admin in question DIDN'T alter the rules which you claim, he did claim that he couldn't alter the rules.

[Image: 8b39d3e19f.jpg] However, we can prove that he did alter the thread and that he was able to.

Following the admin abuse case rules we can clearly see it says on rule 7(http://www.fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?tid=63609)

'We expect our admins to tell the truth, if we find out about any lies, faked evidence or other attempts of twisting the truth the admin will be demoted immediately.'

Nighthawk, has clearly stated that he couldn't alter the rules in the thread however we have two supporting arguments that he did edit the forum post.

Also, you can see from the other section (unban request) that the rule still stands as 'lengthy forum ban'. Which leads me to my next point of another reason to prove that Nighthawk did infact alter the rules as only one of the forums was changed while the other was not.

My closing notes, with the help of Jokahah and Nevy we can see that admins have the ability to alter the thread. We can also see it says Nighthawk did alter the thread as-well. Nighthawk also said that he was 'waiting on something' on the day of my ban which was also the day that Nighthawk altered the rules which is shown by the screengrap I have provided. Nighthawk then stated that he didn't alter the rules because he 'didn't have access'.

http://puu.sh/mX17S/542a691b7e.jpg (http://www.fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?tid=67506)

Nighthawk saying he didn't have access even though he did.It is clear that Nighthawk has blatantly lied on the fact that he 'can't edit the post' and I have been able to clearly show he can. With this, it is of sufficient right that he can be demoted according to the rules on the admin abuse page(Rule number 7).

'We expect our admins to tell the truth, if we find out about any lies, faked evidence or other attempts of twisting the truth the admin will be demoted immediately.'

Nighthawk as said before has lied in this case saying that he couldn't alter the page even though he clearly can. This is one of the two lies he has done in this case to twist the truth which does state in the admin abuse thread rules that he can be demoted immediately for.

I would like to thank Nevy and Jokahah for providing evidence in proving this matter which I owe both great debt to. Again, thank you for your help.

I will now leave it up to the super-admins to review what has been said, again please feel free to contact me if you get confused with what is being said. I am not the best at focusing my points.

- Ghost

[User 12049]

Just got this in my email yesterday:

[Image: c657de3780.png]

Hitman, I am sorry you find my actions 'sad tbh' and that you say that I 'must really hate nighthawk' but what I found 'sad' as you put it was that an admin went out of their way to alter the rules to get me permanently banned, then lied about it and then when I appealed for an unban decided to perm ban me once again for ToS of calling him bias which has only ever lead to possible a 10% warning on the fourms. That is what I think is 'sad'.

I am sorry if you found that blunt but this isn't a personal attack on Nighthawk it's the fact that an admin has lied and altered the rules in order to ban me which I do not agree with unlike you might or turn a blind eye as he is a friend and then say that I 'must really hate nighthawk' as a reason for me posting this. Admins are meant to be trusted in their position which is the reason they don't need visual recordings in order to ban someone. I don't understand how you could trust Nighthawk ever again when he has clearly altered the rules. If he's willing to alter the rules to get a community member banned then what-else is he willing to do?

I don't know what the rest of your sentence was but i'd prefer if you didn't slander my argument by trying to say that its because I hate nighthawk and this is the reason why I am going through all this effort of this admin abuse case. The facts are clear, Nighthawk has in fact alter the rules, he has lied saying that he didn't alter the rules which is in direct violation of the admin abuse rules and does in fact state admins will be demoted if found lying.

I personally don't like admins that play on this server with their soul purpose to get people banned as does Nighthawk with the intentions of altering the rules. I understand yourself and Nighthawk are mates but that doesn't exempt both of you from the rules and it sure doesn't allow you to alter the rules to get someone banned.

If you'd like to discuss this further Hitman I am more than happy to explain to you my side of the story. I completely understand you're sticking up for your mate but it was Nighthawk who originally altered the rules in order to ban a player. Again, I am more than happy to discuss with you over PM why this isn't 'sad' and why stuff like this has to be done. Hate me if you must Hitman but I am not going to stand here while an admin alters rules to get someone banned it's unethical and very unprofessional.

Once again, sorry for the tone of rudeness in this reply, I am just honestly outraged that an admin would say my actions are 'sad' and that I must 'really hate nighthawk' as a reason for posting this admin abuse case. I really didn't' expect an admin of the team to look at this admin abuse case and then deduct from everything I have said with the outcome of 'I really hate Nighthawk'.

Would just want to bring up Nighthawk has already had an honest mistake: http://fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?tid=64824. However, this is more than just an honest mistake and he has personally gone out of his way to get me permanently banned.

- Ghost

[Old Man Jokhah]

As it was also explained, admins have permissions to edit anything they want by system, they do not have permission from Soul to change whatever they want, as it's an SA level action at minimum. That's not being dishonest, that's bad wording at best.

Again, it's impossible to determine a before and after edit using two images from separate areas of the forums. One area may have been reverted where another had not. That is a staff oversight. If you cannot properly form a timeline then it's just hearsay till someone investigates how far back they can dig into forum history.

Also, Nighthawkd never actually said he didn't have access to make an edit, he said very specifically that he started an edit and Soul spoke with him. Soul confirmed nothing was changed by Nighthawkd's specific edit. It's the first reply to your link and you even posted an image of it.

To sum it up:

Your evidence is inconclusive as it's not from the same thread, but a different subforum entirely

Soul already confirmed that no edit took place

I'm the person who added perm ban at request of SA Killjoy

And the claim that he lied about not having access is false as he never said that. It's not that he can't edit by ability, but at request of the Owner.


I'm not seeing how this Abuse case is still open for debate. There is no case remaining in the original post and now it's just a game of finding a new reason to try to get this to continue. To be perfectly clear, the claim that he made any actual edit was debunked before I even stepped up to say anything, as Nighthawkd already stated before this began that Soul already confirmed no edit too place. An edit stamp doesn't mean that an edit actually took place, it just means that someone started an edit and finished it. Weather or not any information was changed, there will still be an edit stamp.

If you could please, for the third or fourth time now, update your images to show the same thread before and after so it can be clearly established as evidence. If not, it's still tampering with evidence in the courthouse to attempt to sway opinion, not actual fact.

[User 12049]

As it was also explained, admins have permissions to edit anything they want by system, they do not have permission from Soul to change whatever they want, as it's an SA level action at minimum. That's not being dishonest, that's bad wording at best.

Again, it's impossible to determine a before and after edit using two images from separate areas of the forums. One area may have been reverted where another had not. That is a staff oversight. If you cannot properly form a timeline then it's just hearsay till someone investigates how far back they can dig into forum history.

Also, Nighthawkd never actually said he didn't have access to make an edit, he said very specifically that he started an edit and Soul spoke with him. Soul confirmed nothing was changed by Nighthawkd's specific edit. It's the first reply to your link and you even posted an image of it.

To sum it up:

Your evidence is inconclusive as it's not from the same thread, but a different subforum entirely

Soul already confirmed that no edit took place

I'm the person who added perm ban at request of SA Killjoy

And the claim that he lied about not having access is false as he never said that. It's not that he can't edit by ability, but at request of the Owner.


I'm not seeing how this Abuse case is still open for debate. There is no case remaining in the original post and now it's just a game of finding a new reason to try to get this to continue. To be perfectly clear, the claim that he made any actual edit was debunked before I even stepped up to say anything, as Nighthawkd already stated before this began that Soul already confirmed no edit too place. An edit stamp doesn't mean that an edit actually took place, it just means that someone started an edit and finished it. Weather or not any information was changed, there will still be an edit stamp.

If you could please, for the third or fourth time now, update your images to show the same thread before and after so it can be clearly established as evidence. If not, it's still tampering with evidence in the courthouse to attempt to sway opinion, not actual fact.

Jokhah it's quite clear that you're not even looking at whats being wrote. http://puu.sh/mX17S/542a691b7e.jpg

How is this not Nighthawk saying he 'Nighthawkd never actually said he didn't have access to make an edit,'. It is quite clear that you are blatantly ignoring one side of the argument and are making up lies now. You are not Nighthawk, you have no proof from anyone that you in-fact altered the rules. I am requesting Jokhah to be warned for from posting on this AA case. I believe he is now lying in an attempt to prove Nighthawk innocent even when there is facts to clearly show proof of Nighthawk altering the rules and how he did attempt to alter the rules 'but couldn't because of [in]sufficient permissions'.

[Infernaw]

Refrain from posting unless it has ANYTHING to do with the actual core topic.

The case is being reviewed. Please remain patient.

[User 12049]

As it was also explained, admins have permissions to edit anything they want by system,

I know, so this does prove that NIghthawk was able to alter the rules if he so chose to.

they do not have permission from Soul to change whatever they want, as it's an SA level action at minimum. That's not being dishonest, that's bad wording at best.

I don't understand this point of the argument. I am not stating anything regarding SA level. Nighthawk personally went to alter the rules without being given permission by anyone.

Again, it's impossible to determine a before and after edit using two images from separate areas of the forums.

How is it? It clearly shows that one forum contradicts the other side which clearly shows that someone intentionally decided to act upon themselves with changing the rules and forgot to change the other side of the fourms

One area may have been reverted where another had not. That is a staff oversight. If you cannot properly form a timeline then it's just hearsay till someone investigates how far back they can dig into forum history.

No areas where reverted, I am only basing what I say of facts and the fact is Nighthawk has altered the rules which has been proven by him not only lying saying he couldn't edit the post but even being caught red-handed with it saying he altered the thread.

Also, Nighthawkd never actually said he didn't have access to make an edit, he said very specifically that he started an edit and Soul spoke with him.

Yes he did : http://puu.sh/mX17S/542a691b7e.jpg Can you please make sure that you have facts to back-up your statements as you're not making random assumptions without even reading the thread prior to this.

Soul confirmed nothing was changed by Nighthawkd's specific edit. It's the first reply to your link and you even posted an image of it.

This is true that Soul did confirm that nothing was changed. However, it does clearly say that Nighthawk did alter the thread and NIghthawk said that he had insufficient right even though both you and Nevy have said admins do have sufficient right to alter threads. So answer me this Jokhah, why is Nighthawk lying if he done nothing wrong?

To sum it up:

Your evidence is inconclusive as it's not from the same thread, but a different subforum entirely

I know it's not, it's to prove that he forgot to alter one thread which clearly shows that one of the threads has been altered. Equally, we can see the other thread wasn't altered as the last time it was altered was 3 years ago. Also, I would just like to mention don't you find it strange that Nighthawk altered the 'template' on the day of my ban and he even said he was waiting for something on that day also?

Soul already confirmed that no edit took place

However, facts tell otherwise.

I'm the person who added perm ban at request of SA Killjoy

You keep stating this but I am yet to see any proof of this and if you can't back-up this claim then this claim is null.

And the claim that he lied about not having access is false as he never said that. It's not that he can't edit by ability, but at request of the Owner.

He did lie in the courthouse, he said he didn't have sufficient right but you and Nevy have clearly said he did. I don't understand your last part either. He didn't have the request of the owner to alter the thread, he did it anyway.

I'm not seeing how this Abuse case is still open for debate. There is no case remaining in the original post and now it's just a game of finding a new reason to try to get this to continue.

I am not 'finding' and reason, the reasons are being given to me and I am just presenting my case of Nighthawk lying.

To be perfectly clear, the claim that he made any actual edit was debunked before I even stepped up to say anything, as Nighthawkd already stated before this began that Soul already confirmed no edit too place.

No it hasn't, it clearly shows he altered the thread/

An edit stamp doesn't mean that an edit actually took place, it just means that someone started an edit and finished it.

This makes no sense, so you're saying he did edit and then finished it?

Weather or not any information was changed, there will still be an edit stamp.

No there won't you click edit on a thread, then cancel it, nothing will be changed at-all.

If you could please, for the third or fourth time now, update your images to show the same thread before and after so it can be clearly established as evidence. If not, it's still tampering with evidence in the courthouse to attempt to sway opinion, not actual fact.

My point is that you can see from both photos that something was changed which doesn't make sense. also, I am not lying, in fact you are of which I have proven.

Please stop commenting Jokakah you're not involved and until you can prove that you specifically altered that thread for that rule then you cannot prove that it wasn't Nighthawk.

[Old Man Jokhah]

Going to just number it instead of quoting.

1: Yes, all administrators can edit any post by system.
2: Again, this is an important detail as it reflects that SOUL (not the system) is the limitation.
3: One post being different from another isn't really that unusual. All it shows is that there was an oversight.
4: Just because there was an edit made doesn't mean that you have any conclusive proof that he actually changed any text.
5: As I clearly stated (do you even read the replies to your thread? I'm wondering cause I have to restate things I've already said) it's basically just bad wording. He has permissions, he doesn't have permission. If one S is the corner of this case, this is a joke. The word ACCESS was never used.
6: If Soul already investigated that nothing was changed, the cornerstone that he changed something is missing, hence the minor infraction of adding an S to Permission is a moot point.

Now in your Sum Up area

7: If Soul already ensured that no actual editing took place and you accepted that in your own words, what is the relevance of him making the edit? If no text was changed, and this is confirmed by the Owner, where is the basis of this point? You accept that no text was edited, but was to go on about how he edited. As for him making an edit in proximity to your ban, that's just an opinion. Do you have any actual fact to support that the edit impacts you in any way? No, because Soul already checked and said no actual text editing happened that day.

8: Fact being the thread says an edit happened. And as I explained, you can confirm finishing an edit with no changes and it will still add the edit stamp. Don't believe me, go make a post, click edit, change nothing, add a reasoning, and see. You will gain an edit stamp. Then I can make a huge case about how you made an edit, weather or not you actually changed anything, and continue to try to pass that edit stamp off as evidence, even though the highest level investigator already checked and told me NO EDIT HAPPENED.

9: I'm not the one making the case. I am not required to post evidence but I have requested it be investigated already. Again, really wondering if you've taken the time to review the replies to your own case. You will see the moment I stepped into the case I requested that it be proven by staff.

10: Again. He never said, at any point, he didn't have insufficent right, just that he didn't have permissions, which should have said permission to avoid this level of confusion.

11: So because he altered a thread, that the owner clearly stated nothing changed in, whom also spoke with him about said edit, you have grounds for a case of abuse? First off, the rules about which posts admins are ALLOWED to edit isn't all that clear, second off, the point you seem to be repeatedly missing, Soul already stated nothing changed. Him making an edit to a section but not changing anything, then getting talked to and instructed by his boss not enough for you? I'm not understanding where you are going with this, if he changed nothing, who cares if there is an edit stamp? At this point your arguement is "He lied about having the ability to edit that post." And that's pretty flimsy, not really abuse either, as administrators are not supposed to reveal what all they do or even can do to the general public. If you knew what I know about what all they can do or have, you'd understand why it's not public information.

12: Exactly what I've been saying. If Soul said no edit took place, he's not saying that an edit wasn't saved. He's saying no text or content was altered. So yes, it's a blind edit for reasons unknown beyond his comment on it.

13: This is very correct. If you start and edit and hit CANCEL that would be the case. As I stated already, he started the edit and instead hit finish and also was required to add a reasoning. Waiting for something was the reasoning. Considering the Owner has already been involved with Nighthawkd on this specific issue, I'm pretty sure whatever "waiting for something" meant was already investigated.

14: SO what you are telling me is I could take a picture of one spot of the forums, then take a picture of a completely different spot on the forums and it's conclusive? Again, each thread must be edited individually. Just because there is a slight difference in text from one to another doesn't automatically mean the last editor is responsible. As for me lying about anything, you have yet to debunk one thing I have said and your suggestions to offer "proof" were requested before your forum ban ended and you got back in this case. I haven't lied and that shows. You haven't lied either. What you have done is thrown up misleading evidence of two different posts, then initially attempted to pass it off as a before and after. If I wouldn't have spoken up at all, no one would have noticed, as several staff had already commented on the case and not noted it.

As for my ability to post here, you don't control that. I've stated very clearly for them to do the check, they haven't said one way or another. So if you want to try to get me off this thread, tell them to hurry up and check, because till you have a way to prove I'm not involved, I'll remain. You'll never find it, because I made the edit in question.

P.S. Before you reply to me, please take the time to review this thread in detail, so I can stop having to repeat myself over and over. I've show everyone I've spoken to in this case the same respect.


Cliffs version:

His pictures are still inconclusive, he's repeatedly avoided throwing up a before an after, Soul already confirmed no text edit took place. The only point this man has left is that Nighthawkd lied because he used the word permissions. He lied because he put that instead of the word permission. The original post was about him editing, with screens, how he lied about it. Now all that's left is how he added an S so he lied so please demote him? Get real.