Unban Request: JerryCat

[Jerrycat]

Your name: [FL:RP] JerryCat

Your SteamID: [b]STEAM_0:0:59274138[/b]

Your ban ID: 66236

Banned by: [FL:M] Suarez

Reason: Invalid job title to pull a gun on officers and demand a release.

Involved: [FL:RP] Hitman; Dan; [FL] Nighthawkd; Sourlemon 

Why we should unban you: I feel as if I was not completely in the wrong in pulling a handgun on the police officers in this situation. Here in America, handguns, such as the one that I used, are widely available for people to own. In the situation, being a good husband would mean protecting my family from harm. The police officers in question were being brutal towards my character's family, such as cuffing, detaining, and shoving my pregnant wife into the back of a police car. In my eyes, I felt the right thing to do in the situation was the provide protection to my family. As was seen in the video evidence posted by Dan, I was not actively trying to kill the police officers, just threaten them into leaving my family alone.

[Coded Brain]

First of all, you admitted to breaking the rules... 

Regarding the job title, I do acknowledge the fact that the job title that I had on at the time was too vague to encompass the type of role play I was engaging in.

and accepted any form of punishment necessary.

Looking back on the situation, I know that I did the wrong thing in this situation and could very well have taken a different approach to how I handled things. I will accept any punishment that the administration sees fit to give me for my actions.

I suggest you read the rules for making an un-ban request.

4. Do not write an unban request if you know you broke the rules.

[Suarez]

Hello.

In relation to your ban, a typical husband would not pull a gun on some officers that are arresting his friends/family. This person I not a criminal but a normal person. I see no reason for you to be unbanned.

[Dark Shadowfall]

From my perspective I do not see any rule breakage on Jerry's part.

He was banned for two specific rules, 9.1 and 9.6.
9.1 States - Custom job titles must accurately state what character you intend to roleplay.
9.6 States - You must roleplay your job accurately (i.e. do not pretend that you're a special ops soldier as a citizen or chef).

I will address each rule directly.

For rule 9.1 I believe Jerry's title did accurately describe the character he intended to roleplay. He was an “Epileptic Husband”, and both Hitman and Nighthawk shared titles that were “Angered Housewife” and “Angry Son” respectively. This here immediately shows that all of them are involved together roleplay wise, much like if a group of criminals set their name to “The Generic Gang – Member”, or something of the sorts. Likewise, Jerry constantly had fits of Epilepsy during the entire stop. It is clear that he was the Husband meaning he is allowed to interact on behalf of the other two (Not some stranger on the street), and that he was Epileptic, something he continued to roleplay.

Now to rule 9.6, he did roleplay his job accurately. As stated above, he was having seizures throughout the entire encounter, fulfilling the Epileptic part of his job name. Lastly, he decided to defend his family after the major risk of jail time was brought up for his son. What you don't understand, is that many individuals make irrational decisions when they or their families are facing jail time. He didn't immediately pull out a gun, he only did so when his Family faced serious legal repercussions – Causing him to believe that trying to escape through illegal methods was the more desirable solution for his family, in his mind. He wanted to protect everyone, a natural Fatherly instinct. You don't need to be a criminal to do illegal things for your children. God knows any Father out there would contemplate murder if they found out that someone was abusing their children. A similar mentality can arise in this situation. His son is getting arrested, his pregnant wife is in the back of a Police Cruiser, between the chronic seizures and the fact that everything he knows in life is falling apart in front of him with his family being taken apart and arrested – he isn't in a good state of mind and could easily make an irrational decision. Now to the second point, and most importantly, he has an Epileptic fit DURING the Gun encounter, further fulfilling his job role. No shots were fired, and he was promptly cuffed. There was absolutely no harm done at all to anyone, and he ended the violence through roleplaying his character's weakness. This is roleplaying, not rule breakage. Despite the fact that the cops didn't seem particularly interested in roleplaying, doesn't mean we should punish Jerry for playing out his character.

It seems like a lot of people are just trying to punish other players for having a good time and roleplaying. There was no harm, there was no foul. From my perspective, there is absolutely no rule breakage on Jerry's part, and I'm quite curious how this all slipped through.

Regards,
Dark Shadowfall

[User 12049]

From my perspective I do not see any rule breakage on Jerry's part.

He was banned for two specific rules, 9.1 and 9.6.
9.1 States - Custom job titles must accurately state what character you intend to roleplay.
9.6 States - You must roleplay your job accurately (i.e. do not pretend that you're a special ops soldier as a citizen or chef).

I will address each rule directly.

For rule 9.1 I believe Jerry's title did accurately describe the character he intended to roleplay. He was an “Epileptic Husband”, and both Hitman and Nighthawk shared titles that were “Angered Housewife” and “Angry Son” respectively. This here immediately shows that all of them are involved together roleplay wise, much like if a group of criminals set their name to “The Generic Gang – Member”, or something of the sorts. Likewise, Jerry constantly had fits of Epilepsy during the entire stop. It is clear that he was the Husband meaning he is allowed to interact on behalf of the other two (Not some stranger on the street), and that he was Epileptic, something he continued to roleplay.

Now to rule 9.6, he did roleplay his job accurately. As stated above, he was having seizures throughout the entire encounter, fulfilling the Epileptic part of his job name. Lastly, he decided to defend his family after the major risk of jail time was brought up for his son. What you don't understand, is that many individuals make irrational decisions when they or their families are facing jail time. He didn't immediately pull out a gun, he only did so when his Family faced serious legal repercussions – Causing him to believe that trying to escape through illegal methods was the more desirable solution for his family, in his mind. He wanted to protect everyone, a natural Fatherly instinct. You don't need to be a criminal to do illegal things for your children. God knows any Father out there would contemplate murder if they found out that someone was abusing their children. A similar mentality can arise in this situation. His son is getting arrested, his pregnant wife is in the back of a Police Cruiser, between the chronic seizures and the fact that everything he knows in life is falling apart in front of him with his family being taken apart and arrested – he isn't in a good state of mind and could easily make an irrational decision. Now to the second point, and most importantly, he has an Epileptic fit DURING the Gun encounter, further fulfilling his job role. No shots were fired, and he was promptly cuffed. There was absolutely no harm done at all to anyone, and he ended the violence through roleplaying his character's weakness. This is roleplaying, not rule breakage. Despite the fact that the cops didn't seem particularly interested in roleplaying, doesn't mean we should punish Jerry for playing out his character.

It seems like a lot of people are just trying to punish other players for having a good time and roleplaying. There was no harm, there was no foul. From my perspective, there is absolutely no rule breakage on Jerry's part, and I'm quite curious how this all slipped through.

Regards,
Dark Shadowfall

Jerry Cat admitted in the ban request saying fully well he broke the rules(I am as much involved as you are).

[Ivan Tempski]

GHOSTK1LL3R, you are not involved, warned.

[Dark Shadowfall]

If you pay attention to exactly what he said, it becomes evident that he is primarily saying that he was at fault for two things:

The first, is that his job description was too vague, in which I completely disagree with him. Its was sufficiently descriptive for his character and fulfilled everything necessary in my book to understand what he was doing. All of this is described in the above post.

The second is that he didn't necessarily pick the best course of action. Which is a very subjective thing. Did he need to pull the gun? No. But did he violate any rules for pulling the gun? No, he did not. This is also elaborated on in my above post.

He is not saying he broke rules, but he acknowledges that there could be some less than ideal things that occurred from his actions. What I am saying is, regardless of how the situation unfolded, there was absolutely no rule breakage. Hence, he should be unbanned.

[Coded Brain]

Now to rule 9.6, he did roleplay his job accurately. As stated above, he was having seizures throughout the entire encounter, fulfilling the Epileptic part of his job name.

Him being epileptic has nothing to do with him pulling a gun on us.

God knows any Father out there would contemplate murder if they found out that someone was abusing their children.

Do you see any abuse in any way, shape or form in the video? No.

Since he is a father, does that mean he is able to to anything for his family?
Can he mug people because they don't have enough money to sent their son to college?
Can he raid people if he does not have enough food to fill the fridge?
Can he pull a gun on an officer because the son was too stupid to get out of the car when the officer said to?
No.

If he really cared about his family he would have let Nighthawkd get arrested. That eliminated ALL chances of danger. But no, he decided to pull a gun to make things 100x more dangerous.

Now that I think about it he pulled a gun while I had an automatic gun out and to my side... Interesting.

[Dark Shadowfall]

It is important to understand that things are very dynamic, and not static and set in stone. This means that the answer to every one of your questions is YES, so long as there is proper background RP before hand. That is why we have a staff team, so that we can understand the nuance and variance in a situation, and deal with things on a case by case basis. We don't have a script that automatically bans every citizen that pulls out a gun – because things aren't that simple.

There is no way to know the inner workings of his mind. Do you know that he isn't desperate, do you know that his epilepsy hasn't played some significant toll on his mental state? You don't, nobody does, he is his own unique person and can't fit any generic storyboard that we try to throw at him. He can create his own persona, and in this scenario, his actions were justifiable. He didn't pull out a gun on some random cop, he pulled out a gun on cops who had his family under arrest. His wife was obviously yelling from the Car, his Son was being threatened with Jail Time, and he had a set of physical and perhaps mental issues to deal with. All of these events (The Background RP) Built up to a point, where he believed his character had to act and do something about it. He believed it was his responsibility, as a Father, to do something about the fate of his family, and he did. Likewise, he also collapsed due to his epilepsy, meaning NOTHING ended up occurring from his own actions – other than his arrest. This also pushed the point that he was roleplaying. If he had no intention of roleplaying, he would have opened fire at you, but that obviously didn't happen.

Rule 16.6 States - Do not FailRP. Car thieves need chop-shops, and burglars need places to store their stolen goods. Proper background RP draws the line between crime and rule-breaking.

This is where I very much believe he had proper background RP. This situation escalated to a Climax, when he finally decided to act. It wasn't random, or out of the blue, everyone's actions caused him to retaliate in a logical and understandable way. Likewise, its varying opinions that make things interesting. You believe that letting his Son get arrested was the logical thing to do. Jerry had a completely different opinion, and, since there was valid RP justification, he was free to do what he did. These rules do not mean there is one way to do things, It means that what you do needs to be justified. Take RDM for an Example. Random is such a vague term, because it is context sensitive. Obviously, we know that Killing is allowed, so long as there is a proper reason. Likewise, putting a gun to an Officer's Head is allowed, so long as there is a justifiable reason. In my eyes, Jerry's reasoning was justifiable.

Also, your statement of an Automatic Firearm is – unfortunately – completely irrelevant. He had a gun planted to the back of your head and came when neither of you had your weapons raised. FearRP doesn't apply if you have the gun down, only if its pointed, as you are not an immediate threat to anyone.

[Coded Brain]

So if you are saying Jerry is completely innocent, why was the report approved? I think all that complicated bullshit is just an excuse. Suarez approved the player report so please, just let him handle this one. I honestly think you're covering up for Jerry because of your clan.