Unfair Ban

[Jinkees!]

v33x [18:06:45] [FL:RP] equal (STEAM_0:1:40601685) said: That can be arranged.
v33x [18:07:14] [FL:RP] equal (STEAM_0:1:40601685) said: /radio CEASE FIRE
v33x [18:07:16] [FL:RP] equal (STEAM_0:1:40601685) said: /radio CEASE FIRE!!!
v33x [18:07:18] [FL:RP] equal (STEAM_0:1:40601685) said: /radio CEASE FIRE!!!
v33x [18:07:20] [FL:RP] equal (STEAM_0:1:40601685) said: /radio CEASE FIRE!!!
v33x [18:07:27] [FL:RP] equal (STEAM_0:1:40601685) said: /inventory health_kit use 1
v33x [18:07:28] [FL:RP] equal (STEAM_0:1:40601685) has used 1 health_kit
v33x [18:07:29] [FL:RP] equal (STEAM_0:1:40601685) said: /me uses a healthpack to heal his wounds.
v33x [18:07:34] [FL:RP] equal (STEAM_0:1:40601685) said: /radio CEASE FIRE, I AM HELD CAPTIVE.

Those are the logs from the time you barged out of the elevator firstly breaking fearrp with the other officers whom died due to the breaking of it.

We were not told that the hostage was to stay in the lobby but that we were going to our house in where he will be released.

FearRP technically did apply due to the fact that the only reason it was off in the first place was because you broke it when you barged out of the elevator shooting us.

Mm, actually, I'll be happy to own up to that first instance. Though, it was a mistake. I was not paying attention to the chat. 
But what do you mean "Technically still applied?".
NLR is also a rule, GeneralRickets, but if a player were to be killed by someone breaking NLR, they'd still have to abide by the NLR 10 minutes. Meaning that even if you are disadvantaged by a rule, through someone else breaking that same rule - it is still in effect?

Furthermore, I still await evidence of the private message between you and the unnamed player, as well as an explanation as to how we were to know the admin mafia's sudden decision change of where to leave the hostage.

[General Rickets]

Well the private player was mentioned in my previous post. I do not understand your ramblings about NLR either. Sorry.

[Jinkees!]

Be forewarned as well, an additional member of the SWAT team at the time will be posting what he was told with regards to the hostage in due course. I think he's finishing a competitive game, something or the other.

[Jinkees!]

Well the private player was mentioned in my previous post. I do not understand your ramblings about NLR either. Sorry.

He was mentioned as an example, yes. But there was no evidence via. logs to support it, so please, post evidence showing the private message back and fourth regarding the situation in question.

The 'ramble' about NLR was used as an example. Player A is shot and killed, but returns within two minutes to kill Player B. Now yes, Player A is punished, but Player B has to wait his ten minutes before he can return, otherwise he can expect similar treatment - this is because his NLR is still in effect, regardless.
The same can be said with FearRP, if Player A (Me, accidentaly I hope you realise, in this case) breaks FearRP in a hostage situation, then yes, he is punished etc. - but as shots were fired, the rule regarding FearRP and Shots fired is still in effect. 

Or is this subject to a staff member's selective picking and choosing of what rules apply when and when not?

[General Rickets]

v33x [18:08:43] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /request We have a hostage do not shoot.
v33x [18:10:58] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /request You are not responding are you eh?
v33x [18:11:07] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /request I recommend you do so.
v33x [18:12:15] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: .//I like this sru sgt
v33x [18:13:34] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm Alread We need you to respond.
v33x [18:14:02] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r Hostage situation takes priority
v33x [18:14:28] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r All we want is a meeting. you will then be given the swats life
v33x [18:14:43] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r We wanted a peacefull meeting but thank your SGT for this slaughter
v33x [18:14:48] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r Yes face to face
v33x [18:15:01] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: //can yall stop spamming the fkn elevator
v33x [18:15:03] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: //like wtf
v33x [18:16:06] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r We only want this meeting no guns, no fighting.
v33x [18:16:40] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r Ill have you know that we walked in and tried to organise one however we were refused and threatened.
v33x [18:17:18] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r I dont believe you. I think you are just stalling.
v33x [18:17:42] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: //why xant one just get a fkn meeting with the pres these days
v33x [18:18:47] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /pm Rickets The swat made up tactis about flashing then moving in. They're coming up now.
v33x [18:18:54] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r I still do not believe you. I have been tipped off that you are assualting us.
v33x [18:18:59] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r We know the plan.
v33x [18:19:17] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r Assaulting you? In what way?
v33x [18:19:32] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already I still do not believe you. I have been tipped off that you are assualting us.
v33x [18:19:38] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already We know the plan.
v33x [18:19:49] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r I know that too
v33x [18:20:09] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /holster
v33x [18:20:15] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /me holsters the weapon.
v33x [18:20:29] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /pm Rickets 4 swat one cop - still discussing.
v33x [18:20:37] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /cradio 10-4
v33x [18:21:17] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /cradio 10-4
v33x [18:21:33] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r Alote more reinforcements. Hired guns I'm guessing.
v33x [18:21:44] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r 2-3 guys.
v33x [18:21:47] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already Come up alone. I do not want your hired goons up here.
v33x [18:22:05] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) has used 1 Fish
v33x [18:22:21] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /request We aint dumb. Im not walking into a trap.
v33x [18:23:10] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r If you're making a deal - they're going to trap ya.
v33x [18:23:29] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r Something about a flank with a flashbang.
v33x [18:23:34] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already We have someone listening to your every word. We know your plan. We know of the trap.
v33x [18:23:51] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already We know of the flank
v33x [18:24:04] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r They're going to make ya feel safe and lead you away. So they can kill you.
v33x [18:24:19] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already You are going to lead us away and then kill us.
v33x [18:24:24] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already We aint dumb
v33x [18:25:38] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: None of your bussines.
v33x [18:26:03] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r No you need to come up alone we have heard about your plans and schemes. Our trust is gone.
v33x [18:26:08] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r They're going to seperate you. Or try to.
v33x [18:26:10] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r We wanted a simple meeting but no.
v33x [18:26:16] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already We wanted a simple meeting but no.
v33x [18:26:40] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already You are goignt o try and seperate us. Not happening
v33x [18:27:07] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) has used 1 Fish
v33x [18:27:10] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r Hahahahahaha no we hear exactly what you are saying down there dont you worry
v33x [18:27:38] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r All im going to say is we have a hostage here. You need to complay
v33x [18:27:42] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r Comply
v33x [18:27:59] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r No you are not.
v33x [18:28:25] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r We have not got all fucking day. Hurry up.
v33x [18:28:36] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r All we want is a meeting. Are you doing it or not?
v33x [18:29:00] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r Well be quick.
v33x [18:30:14] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r They're coming up soon.
v33x [18:30:22] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r Making a choice now.
v33x [18:30:27] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r Who is?
v33x [18:30:35] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /R The attackers.
v33x [18:30:47] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already Do not send the attackers up.
v33x [18:30:53] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r 1-2 security guards - well armed. 4 SRU and 1 cop (?)
v33x [18:31:01] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r 2 cops.
v33x [18:31:14] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already Not what im being told.
v33x [18:31:54] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r SWAT are going back out the glass.
v33x [18:32:03] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r Hmmm?
v33x [18:32:52] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: //brb
v33x [18:33:02] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r Cops are right at the entrance to the Nexus.

Our and some of the presidents conversation.

[Jinkees!]

v33x [18:08:43] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /request We have a hostage do not shoot.
v33x [18:10:58] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /request You are not responding are you eh?
v33x [18:11:07] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /request I recommend you do so.
v33x [18:12:15] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: .//I like this sru sgt
v33x [18:13:34] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm Alread We need you to respond.
v33x [18:14:02] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r Hostage situation takes priority
v33x [18:14:28] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r All we want is a meeting. you will then be given the swats life
v33x [18:14:43] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r We wanted a peacefull meeting but thank your SGT for this slaughter
v33x [18:14:48] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r Yes face to face
v33x [18:15:01] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: //can yall stop spamming the fkn elevator
v33x [18:15:03] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: //like wtf
v33x [18:16:06] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r We only want this meeting no guns, no fighting.
v33x [18:16:40] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r Ill have you know that we walked in and tried to organise one however we were refused and threatened.
v33x [18:17:18] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r I dont believe you. I think you are just stalling.
v33x [18:17:42] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: //why xant one just get a fkn meeting with the pres these days
v33x [18:18:47] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /pm Rickets The swat made up tactis about flashing then moving in. They're coming up now.
v33x [18:18:54] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r I still do not believe you. I have been tipped off that you are assualting us.
v33x [18:18:59] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r We know the plan.
v33x [18:19:17] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r Assaulting you? In what way?
v33x [18:19:32] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already I still do not believe you. I have been tipped off that you are assualting us.
v33x [18:19:38] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already We know the plan.
v33x [18:19:49] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r I know that too
v33x [18:20:09] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /holster
v33x [18:20:15] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /me holsters the weapon.
v33x [18:20:29] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /pm Rickets 4 swat one cop - still discussing.
v33x [18:20:37] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /cradio 10-4
v33x [18:21:17] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /cradio 10-4
v33x [18:21:33] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r Alote more reinforcements. Hired guns I'm guessing.
v33x [18:21:44] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r 2-3 guys.
v33x [18:21:47] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already Come up alone. I do not want your hired goons up here.
v33x [18:22:05] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) has used 1 Fish
v33x [18:22:21] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /request We aint dumb. Im not walking into a trap.
v33x [18:23:10] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r If you're making a deal - they're going to trap ya.
v33x [18:23:29] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r Something about a flank with a flashbang.
v33x [18:23:34] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already We have someone listening to your every word. We know your plan. We know of the trap.
v33x [18:23:51] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already We know of the flank
v33x [18:24:04] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r They're going to make ya feel safe and lead you away. So they can kill you.
v33x [18:24:19] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already You are going to lead us away and then kill us.
v33x [18:24:24] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already We aint dumb
v33x [18:25:38] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: None of your bussines.
v33x [18:26:03] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r No you need to come up alone we have heard about your plans and schemes. Our trust is gone.
v33x [18:26:08] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r They're going to seperate you. Or try to.
v33x [18:26:10] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r We wanted a simple meeting but no.
v33x [18:26:16] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already We wanted a simple meeting but no.
v33x [18:26:40] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already You are goignt o try and seperate us. Not happening
v33x [18:27:07] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) has used 1 Fish
v33x [18:27:10] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r Hahahahahaha no we hear exactly what you are saying down there dont you worry
v33x [18:27:38] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r All im going to say is we have a hostage here. You need to complay
v33x [18:27:42] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r Comply
v33x [18:27:59] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r No you are not.
v33x [18:28:25] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r We have not got all freaking day. Hurry up.
v33x [18:28:36] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r All we want is a meeting. Are you doing it or not?
v33x [18:29:00] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r Well be quick.
v33x [18:30:14] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r They're coming up soon.
v33x [18:30:22] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r Making a choice now.
v33x [18:30:27] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r Who is?
v33x [18:30:35] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /R The attackers.
v33x [18:30:47] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already Do not send the attackers up.
v33x [18:30:53] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r 1-2 security guards - well armed. 4 SRU and 1 cop (?)
v33x [18:31:01] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r 2 cops.
v33x [18:31:14] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /pm already Not what im being told.
v33x [18:31:54] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r SWAT are going back out the glass.
v33x [18:32:03] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: /r Hmmm?
v33x [18:32:52] [FL] General Rickets (STEAM_0:1:65599084) said: //brb
v33x [18:33:02] [FL:RP] Nihl (STEAM_0:0:46381033) said: /r Cops are right at the entrance to the Nexus.

Our and some of the presidents conversation.

I'm happy you've had this conversation with the President, and that the private messages weren't a fabrication. I'm glad you appreciated the roleplay from myself as well.
However, I'd like you to please explain how the SWAT team at the time - who had already made the plan - were supposed to be aware of your continued possession of the hostage?
As far as the SWAT team, Police Force and Security Agents involved with the takedown @ connectivity road were concerned, you had obliged the original negotiations to leave the hostage (equal) inside the Nexus Lobby, and leave the city. The President ultimately failed to alert the government forces that the hostage was still in captivity, therefore they were under the impression that the plan was "ago". 
To summarise the bans issued, not just mine, I do not think - and I hope you agree with me - this was down to bitter rule breaking. I think it was down to:

• Lack of communication (President>SWAT)
  

There are no rules in place that enforces communication between president and government, though common sense certainly encourages it.
It's clear to see from my point of view certainly, that this incident was not the fault of a trigger-happy government force or an incoherent mafia. As you had previously mentioned, RPPs were to be handed out, as the roleplay was certainly a cut above the usual hostage situation. This rule breakage, I feel, was simply due to lack of communication. Something that couldn't be helped by the party punished.

[Jono]

I'll put in my two cents.

I was initially worried that the hostage was still in the car, and as such radio'd it in.

[Image: 6b6b9c9dd76272d9644df956ef618008.png]

He responded with the following.

[Image: a0f4351379e25c1937f29f545f723bb2.png]

So from my point of view, I was still personally unsure about it, but he seemed pretty adamant on it. (I don't know if he had other information, and he was too far away from me to clarify via voice chat. I don't know what he fully based this information on, he'd have to answer that.

We then received radio chat from a police officer at the scene.

[Image: 4d04c9da776f563bf3d06b84b1b2d972.png]

From that point on, it was in a matter of seconds, these were the last commands. (The car was just moving into view from the fog at this point.)

[Image: c17ecbe2742bde92892e0cd032db53f6.png]

This was followed by most people shooting at the van/car.r


It's hard to say exactly if fearRP was broken directly or indirectly, but then I don't suppose it fully matters. From my point of view, and presumably the other SRU whom was banned, we thought the hostage (Equalizer) was in the nexus, and the deal had gone through. As such, proceeded to follow orders. (I didn't fully comply, and was unsure, however.) 


Based on this, I can assume that Jinkees information either came from an assumption, or an alterer source which wasn't done via the radio, which is a possibility.


I felt the whole situation was very messy from start to finish, and could've been handled better by both parties. I also see how Jinkees, and other SRU members broke fearRP, and I do believe that it wasn't done purposely, if it means anything.

[Jinkees!]

An update would be appreciated.
Thanks.

[General Rickets]

Approved as such. You are now unbanned however it will remain on record as there was plenty actions and precautions which could have been taken to avoid this.