Unban Request: Jonesy

[SirCrow]

I'm not huniting for a reason to make the ban valid. My wording of the ban was bad, yes. I admit to this, but the ban is valid.

You said you had been rarely breaking laws. Unless you had been talking about BlackDog on TS; Mostly about how you can antagonize him and/or attempting to so so, you had been breaking the law, being chased or been in jail.

The ban was not wrongful. The ban reason is FailRP, worded as Promoting Aggrestive Rp and failrp. Faustie had said drugs had been legal at the time. Later, I find out that they had been in fact illegal. Promoting aggressive rp by itself is allowed. Do it while breaking other server rules, it may be tacked on to the ban reason.

My ban REASON was wrong. The ban itself is valid. Before coming to a conclusion, I ask for other staff member's opinion on this unban request. Not on the time or length of the ban, it is the players last chance, but on the validity of the ban itself, not the reason.

[Jonesy]

I'm not huniting for a reason to make the ban valid. My wording of the ban was bad, yes. I admit to this, but the ban is valid.

You said you had been rarely breaking laws. Unless you had been talking about BlackDog on TS; Mostly about how you can antagonize him and/or attempting to so so, you had been breaking the law, being chased or been in jail.

The ban was not wrongful. The ban reason is FailRP, worded as Promoting Aggrestive Rp and failrp. Faustie had said drugs had been legal at the time. Later, I find out that they had been in fact illegal. Promoting aggressive rp by itself is allowed. Do it while breaking other server rules, it may be tacked on to the ban reason.

My ban REASON was wrong. The ban itself is valid. Before coming to a conclusion, I ask for other staff member's opinion on this unban request. Not on the time or length of the ban, it is the players last chance, but on the validity of the ban itself, not the reason.

I did not discuss how I could 'antagonize' BlackDog, I was discussing previous events regarding myself and BlackDog with Decay. Decay also shared his past events with BlackDog too. 

Do you have any evidence to back that drugs were illegal? I don't re-call there being any legislation on drugs at the time, including permanent laws. I checked the laws at the time and there was nothing I could find that regarding the legislation of drugs.

"Promoting aggressive rp by itself is allowed. Do it while breaking other server rules, it may be tacked on to the ban reason."
As we have established, I was not breaking any of the server rules over this period of time, especially anything to promote aggressive RP.

If FailRP was considered due my character having to be a 'Functioning member of society', you are yet to reply, or discuss anything related to my previous reply which argues your point regarding the actuality of your reasoning.

[Enzyme]

Fultzy checked the logs earlier and confirmed that drugs were banned at this time.

[Jonesy]

I've had some evidence thrown at me by Fultzy, and I can confirm that there was laws regarding drugs at the time. However, I still do not see how asking where I can get drugs from is such bad behaviour? I mean, I've seen plenty of people do it on the server, including staff, and it not be classed FailRP. Drugs are a part of the gamemode, it's not like I was doing anything un-natural or whatnot. It is not against the rules to break the presidents laws, as for this is part of what I'm potentially being permanently banned for. This is wrong.

Either way, I'm starting to request a fixed ban reason, they seem to keep changing every single time I view a reply on this thread and It's getting rather messy. Sir Crow, you don't seem to be able to provide a fixed ban reason, nor have you provided ANY evidence to back your claims towards me. Every one of your posts give a different story, and so does Decay, who you discussed this ban with prior to issuing it. Please take Faustie's post into account.

[SourLemon]

Involved - Police Sgt. On at the time and witness to multiple events.
You Drove right up to me and Blackdog as we were arresting someone in the city tunnel and said, "Would you guys like to buy any drugs?" Then you promptly drove off, as I tried to walk over to your car to ask you step out. You knew it was a crime as you even stated in your original post :
" A police officer came over to my car so I promptly drove away with fear of being arrested."
Also, if you had a fear of being arrested, why would you drive past us multiple times in the tunnel? You had been warned already by an Admin/mod to not do that, and yet you continued to do it.
You don't walk up to a Police Officer/Government Contractor and ask them if they want drugs, you just don't. It is clear baiting.

Street Crime Rule 2.: Remember - criminals do not want to get caught. Do not commit crime in plain sight or under the eyes of multiple witnesses or even police officers.

[Jonesy]

I drove back once, in order to go back to the city and park my car. And regarding street crime rule 2, I was not actually committing any crimes, nor breaking any law.

[Faustie]

Street crime rule 2 is not relevant to this case. There's been some discussion within the admin team, and while it is still ongoing, I'm going to be the first to openly say that I do not support the changing of ban reasons after they have already been stated and a request made. Jonesy should be tried for the original ban reason, and changing it afterwards is not OK, it would be akin to changing the charges in a court of law after someone has already pleaded their innocence. Therefore, Jonesy is being tried for the original ban reason of "Promoting aggressive RP-Failed to listen to warning, FailRP-Crime Rule 9". As such, street crime rule 2 is not part of this case.

Also, Sourlemon, do you have any actual physical evidence? This is a permaban, and as such the evidence to back it up must be concrete. Hearsay or eyewitness testimony, even from staff, is not reliable, as it could be biased, and therefore is not acceptable evidence to support a permaban. I've been here for several years, and if I've learned one thing it's that physical evidence is a necessity if you want to find the truth, and to avoid false judgements.

Jonesy, I believe that you were warned for baiting. What was your intention when you drove past the officers and made the quip about drugs? Was it to bait BlackDog personally, or was it an in-character roleplay action, whether out of spite for being previously arrested by them, or for another reason?

[Jonesy]

I guess it was part of the roleplay at the time, general citizen vs police. My character, and even myself, was angry at the government for the way they had treated myself, and other citizens. So this was my method at getting back at them, by causing hastle. I guess with the current situation of BlackDog and I it was taken way out of proportion.

I have since apologised to BlackDog via the forums and am yet to receive a reply. However, I have promised him that nothing of this nature will happen in the future, and that I can safely say I can call somewhat of a truce. No grudges held, but remain civil.

[Faustie]

I see, and if that is indeed true then both "Failed to listen to warning" or "FailRP - Crime rule 9" are invalid, as in character actions would not be in violation of an OOC baiting warning and what you've written does not comprise a street crime rule 9 violation either. As "promoting aggressiveRP" is not against the rules, that reason is also not valid, and that is something all our staff need to be reminded of as there are still bans for "unwritten rules" such as this one, when they are not actually against the rules.

I see no physical evidence that could discredit your statement, and without it it is just your word against someone elses, and I have never been a support of hearsay, as such I'd like to go for innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This is a permaban - There must be 100% solid evidence. If anyone can supply any, please do.

BlackDog told me something similar in his input on the situation, saying that a lot of this stems from some policies which are very much in a grey area, and lead to personal admin interpretation on various rules, leading to discrepancies in bans and some people getting unfairly banned. I think that this is one of those cases.

BlackDog's input on the situation: "02:49 - [BB][FL:RP][F.I][BlackChristmas: To me it seems alot of this stems from FLs really grey area policys and reliance on a moutain of unwritten rules. Jonesy technicly did nothing wrong, because nothing is written to define whathe did is wrong in the first place, we can slap failRP on the baiting of cops, but we have nothingto define what failRP is in the first place in any real context, its all word of mouth that it gets spread and updated on which makesit impossible for people to act on. My personal way of thinking is "If i think it could be classed as failRP, dont do it" but that dosnt work for everyone"

[SirCrow]

Appeal reviewed and approved.

Closing notes:
Suspension for accused player has been shortened to three (3) days.
Please note, the ban will stay on your record. From here on out, anything that requires administrative punishment at all, including a simple kick or mute due to what ever reason, your final ban is to be issued.

[FL] Sir Crow
Server Administrative Team