Unban Request: Jonesy

[Jonesy]

Your name: [FL:RP] Jonesy



Your ban ID: 56780



Banned by: [FL] Sir Crow/[FL:M] Decay




Reason: Promoting aggressive RP-Failed to listen to warning, FailRP-Crime Rule 9




Involved: Myself, Decay, BlackDog, SourLemon



Why we should unban you: Well I don't really know where to start.



Let's start from the beginning. This started when Decay and I were chatting away on teamspeak. Now, me and BlackDog do have a rusty past, and there are personal issues involved here. However, Decay said to me on teamspeak, "let's go up to BlackDog's car and see who he targets when I press his lightbar." From here we were just somewhat testing around BlackDog's attitude towards myself. I had pressed the lightbar the second time of which I admit, was a bit of a dick move. From this, I was arrested. Following this, BlackDog had accused me of baiting and Decay promptly apologised to BlackDog. 



A short while after, BlackDog had his 'Coffee Cup' positioned on his car, which I'm sure many of you are aware of. This 'Coffee cup' seems somewhat like a baiting tactic to promote his own aggressive RP scenario's, where if anyone would nudge, move or damage his cup he would class it as criminal damage and tranquilise unarmed citizens who are compliant with his orders and then proceed to tie them with his hostage rope and call for police units to arrest said 'criminal.' If what I was doing was promoting aggressive roleplay, I don't see how this isn't. However, that's not the point. Decay was telling me how, before he became a moderator, he would grab the cup and see how far he could get away without BlackDog noticing. So I decided to try this myself as admittedly, it did sound like fun. This is how a rebellious Citizen would act, commonly, so this was not breaking any form of any rules. This could have been dealt with IC'ly and should not have resulted in being part of my ban reason. I recieved a warning from Decay for 'baiting' BlackDog which I took in and decided I would change my attitude. 



Around 20/30 minutes later, I was driving through the city tunnel when I see several people in the city tunnel. On my drive past, I asked the people, who were SourLemon, Blackdog and somebody being arrested if they were up for buying any drugs. A police officer came over to my car so I promptly drove away with fear of being arrested. Decay had informed me via Teamspeak that BlackDog had sent a request that I was still baiting him and that I was continuing to promote aggressive roleplay. A short while after, I drove back into the city, driving passed SourLemon and BlackDog, which they didn't react to, so I parked my car and strolled off a free citizen, without any further intentions of committing crime. I was teleported to the roof of the warehouse outside of the city by Decay and I had told him I was willing to formally apologise to BlackDog for being a pester to him on the server over the recent weeks, for which I admit, I have been a pain to him but I realised this, which is why I had requested that I could apologise. Decay teleported BlackDog, and I had apologised to him and told him it wouldn't happen again. BlackDog took this into account and said, 'Actions speak louder than words,' of which I promised myself and Decay that it would not happen again. I had to leave, considering it was around 6am and I had asked Decay, and Crow who was stood next to us phased, if they had anything else they wish to talk to me about before I left. Decay said no, and Crow didn't respond. 



A short while after I had left the server Laurenz messages me on steam with '>:' and I asked him what was up, he just replied, uh... erm..., and then Decay had sent me a Snapchat telling me how he had felt bad, and I didn't know what was up until he sent me a picture of the bans page showing me being Permanently banned by Sir Crow for the following reason stated above.





A few points that I would like to add; 



- Promoting Aggressive RolePlay is not against the FL rules, considering it is a large part of the roleplay that is commonly incurred on players. I also have an understanding that staff have previously banned for this, and have also been sternly spoken to regarding these type of bans. If I was to be Promoting Aggressive Roleplay, which had lead to a ban due to my actions, it also means that breaking a coffee cup planted by an official, is too promoting aggressive roleplay.



- I was given the chance to apologise to BlackDog so I could clear the air and hopefully continue to play without any problems in the future. However I was still banned shortly afterwards after feeling like I was left with a very stern warning.



- Talking about drugs, or asking an officer if he wishes to buy drugs is not against the rules, nor was against any form of law. These things should be dealt with IC'ly, and are not a bannable offence. This would be equal to running a red light, or jaywalking being a part of street crime. These are not against any form of rule.



- My last ban, or any form of punishment, was issued 19/12/2013, which is 5 days short of a year. Over this time I have proven myself to be more mature on the servers and I have changed my attitude while playing the servers. I have been involved in a lot more roleplay, I try my best to roleplay every situation I can, I try my best to help new players have a clear understanding of the rules so that they do not break them in future. I have made an effort to keep FL a nice place to be for fresh, and for classic players. I'm sure, and I hope, a lot/the majority of you have noticed a tremendous change in my behaviour over this last year. 

Thank you in advance,
Jonesy.

[Decay]

You need to get your story straight Jonesy, I didn't warn you about the cup, I warned you on because you drove up to blackdog did /me Rolls down the window and then you made a spitting sound. This was all directed thorwards blackdog. After you did this, you circled around were he was staying. That's when I warned you.

[Jonesy]

You need to get your story straight Jonsey, I didn't warn you about the cup, I warned you on because you drove up to blackdog did /me Rolls down the window and then you made a spitting sound. This was all directed thorwards blackdog. After you did this, you circled around were he was staying. That's when I warned you.

To be honest with you, they were around the exact same time as far as I believe. As for you also laughed in teamspeak once this had happened, therefore the warning was not taken seriously.

I drove around towards the firestation, and back to the AMPM to park my car. 

I'm getting a slightly different story here from the banning administrator;

[Image: 25syi5f.jpg]

After I sent that message, Crow informed me he did not wish to discuss anything on Steam, TS or Snapchat.

[Faustie]

I do find the ban here to be fairly rushed. After it occurred and I was asked to look into it a little I saw that no two people could give me the same reason for the ban - Everyone I spoke to gave me a different reason, making me think this wasn't very thoroughly discussed. BlackDog thought it was all about him, SirCrow told me it wasn't at all about BlackDog but about breaking Street Crime rules, and so on. I asked every party if any evidence could be given, to which the answer was "no", so what we have here is a permaban without hard evidence to support it, that seems to be based on a misunderstanding of the street crime rules.

I asked BlackDog if he had any evidence of harassment, and he said that he did not, therefore we cannot issue a ban on the grounds of harassment, certainly not a perma without evidence.

I discussed the matter with SirCrow last night a little, and I can't say that I approved of the ban. "Promoting aggressiveRP" in itself is not a banning offence, as aggressiveRP is a major part of our servers. We need to stop using "unwritten rules" for this kind of thing, as it's unfair on players and inconsistent within the staff.

When it came to the street crime rules, I found the ban to be very rushed. Talking about drugs, even talking about buying or selling them, is not a criminal offence unless the president explicitly states that talking about drugs is against the law. If the cops then had genuine suspicion he planned to sell, this could have been roleplayed. Talking about selling drugs is not against our rules, and nor was it against the president's laws at the time. When I mentioned this, SirCrow said that we happily arrest people who run red lights and so on, even if the president does not specifically make it a law. That is true, but the point is we arrest them - We don't ban them for it. Technically, running a red light in front of a police officer is just as much a violation of the street crime rules as talking about selling drugs is. But we never ban for this, it is always roleplayed, why was this not?

Apologies if I got anyone's point of view on this wrong - It was very late when I spoke to you all, and it's hard to remember everything perfectly. If I got anything wrong, feel free to correct me.

[Decay]

You need to get your story straight Jonsey, I didn't warn you about the cup, I warned you on because you drove up to blackdog did /me Rolls down the window and then you made a spitting sound. This was all directed thorwards blackdog. After you did this, you circled around were he was staying. That's when I warned you.

To be honest with you, they were around the exact same time as far as I believe. As for you also laughed in teamspeak once this had happened, therefore the warning was not taken seriously.

I drove around towards the firestation, and back to the AMPM to park my car. 

I'm getting a slightly different story here from the banning administrator;

[Image: 25syi5f.jpg]

After I sent that message, Crow informed me he did not wish to discuss anything on Steam, TS or Snapchat.

" about the cop thing " Meaning: that you were trying to get blackdog to chase you around, by spitting on him.

[Jonesy]

You need to get your story straight Jonsey, I didn't warn you about the cup, I warned you on because you drove up to blackdog did /me Rolls down the window and then you made a spitting sound. This was all directed thorwards blackdog. After you did this, you circled around were he was staying. That's when I warned you.

To be honest with you, they were around the exact same time as far as I believe. As for you also laughed in teamspeak once this had happened, therefore the warning was not taken seriously.

I drove around towards the firestation, and back to the AMPM to park my car. 

I'm getting a slightly different story here from the banning administrator;

[Image: 25syi5f.jpg]

After I sent that message, Crow informed me he did not wish to discuss anything on Steam, TS or Snapchat.

" about the cop thing " Meaning: that you were trying to get blackdog to chase you around, by spitting on him.

So why couldn't Crow simply tell me that when I had asked him, then maybe I could have been clearer in my original post. Which is all I asked the question for.

My character was rebelling against the government for arresting me for petty crimes, I did not resort to weapons or anything of that nature. I simply stuck to the citizen-ways and spat at him. Which players have done in the past, and it has not been looked down on this way, ever.

[SirCrow]

Here's how it stands. The ban reasons are invalid. After talking to multiple admins, promoting aggressive RP is infact allowed. As there had been no presidential law regarding drugs, nor is it a permanent law any longer, you had not broken any street crime rules.

With the being said, the ban itself is valid. On the rules, it states "your character is by default a functional member of society, so don't do anything you wouldn't do in real life." You can view this on the forums above the General Rules on both the forums and in-game. Decay told you to stop doing something, you did not. You had said in your original post you had been RP'ing as a rebellious citizen. If this is true, then you've not followed rule 1 in the Job Rules section, which regards the custom jobs and how they much state what character you are roleplaying. Until you changed your job to "Thug," which wasn't until you drove by and asked if anyone wanted to buy drugs in the city tunnel to SourLemon, BD, and the player they had been arresting, your job name was the "default" job title-Citizen. Metagaming
As of now, your ban reasoning will be "FailRP, metagaming, disregarding an administrator's warning"

The length of the ban is simply because it was your last chance. Yes, it was almost a year ago. You had not been an active player in our servers for that year. You joined here and there, but until recently, you had been mostly inactive. Fact of the matter is it was your last chance. A last chance means anything you do that is ban-worthy will result in a permanent ban.

This ban had nothing to do with your harassment of BlackDog, as nothing in the logs can back this up. I've been listening to you for days stating how you hate BlackDog. It's obvious your actions had been out of spite. From what I've heard in your reasoning, you have no real reason to hate him, just simply do. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it doesn't get out of hand, which it did. Again, as there are no logs to back this, harassment will not be included in the ban reasons.

[Jonesy]

So what you're saying is, you had banned me at the time for one reason, and now I have protested THAT ban, and have been proved in the right, you think it's valid to change the ban reason and approve removing the ban, yet replace it with another ban, with another reason?

I don't see how I was metagaming, whatsoever. I don't see where this comes into play within the entirety of this ban, and unban request. I did not disregard the warning issued by Decay as I did not break any rules or do anything wrong after the warning.

A citizen is a general-everyday citizen. Citizens often become angry, it's an everyday emotion. People sometimes act in unrational ways to get back at people for their actions. My character was angry at the guy who had abused him with tranquillisers and ropes in order to arrest me. My character took action IC'ly but did not once resort to anything violent. No weapons were used. I was not FailRP'ing in any way shape or form.

[SirCrow]

The ban reason is to be changed, the ban will stand as issued. Not removed, and another ban added.

In your OP, you had stated you had intended to roleplay as a rebellious citizen. Not a normal, every day law bidding citizen, but a rebellious citizen. You, by your default job name, had been a citizen, meaning you're "a functional member of society."

As for the warning, he had told you to stop baiting Blackdog. You continued to do so as when you drive by him and Sourlemon in the tunnel, you knew well he was there. This is a form of baiting.

[Jonesy]

The ban reason is to be changed, the ban will stand as issued. Not removed, and another ban added.

In your OP, you had stated you had intended to roleplay as a rebellious citizen. Not a normal, every day law bidding citizen, but a rebellious citizen. You, by your default job name, had been a citizen, meaning you're "a functional member of society."

As for the warning, he had told you to stop baiting Blackdog. You continued to do so as when you drive by him and Sourlemon in the tunnel, you knew well he was there. This is a form of baiting.

Right, so what you're saying is that this unban request is approved, but you've decided to go back and search for a valid reason to ban me. I find it highly unfair that you wouldn't even comment on my original unban request, but just change the ban, nullifying my original post. 

A 'Rebellious Citizen' is still a Citizen. Being rebellious is a characteristic, not a career. If this was the case, every single roleplay situation would have to have a suitable job? "/job Evocity Store - Customer" etc. That is not how it works. Like I said in my previous post, I did not take things into criminal hands nor did I break any stated laws, such as using weaponry, in order to get 'revenge' for my previous treatment.

[Image: 2s6sfvr.png]
"You had said in your original post you had been RP'ing as a rebellious citizen. If this is true, then you've not followed rule 1 in the Job Rules section, which regards the custom jobs and how they much state what character you are roleplaying."  - [FL] Sir Crow


This does not mention that you must state what character you are roleplaying, however, if you do have a custom job title, you must roleplay that title and nothing else. This is to avoid being a 'Corleone Associate' but really being an undercover police officer. And vice versa. Knowing the rules and understanding the rules are two very different things.

'A functional member of Society' - My character was, in-fact, a fully functioning member of society. He was not an animal, and he did everything a citizen would do, whether rational or irrational. There was nothing I had done that proved against this section of the rulebook. I paid taxes, had a home, didn't often commit crime, I didn't resort to anything extreme that a non-functioning member of society would do.

I strongly feel that you should take full responsibility for your actions, of banning me unlawfully and at the very least apologise. I, personally, think that going back through the logs and hunting a reason to ban me is disgraceful.