Backseat Administration

[Safira]

I was just wondering, why is trying to deal with a minge such a bad thing?

I know that we should:
a) make a ban request
b) Ask an admin
c) avoid the minge

But sometimes it gets a bit hard if they decide to propblock city tunnel, or proptrap us. Even molotov-ing your way out is looked down upon.
And I've seen the ban times for BA stretching for quite long lengths of time.
So yeah, why is Backseat Administrating so awful if it limits the player enough to at least explain to them what they're doing wrong, or to keep them from ruining RP until an admin deals with it?

So I opened a discussion thread.
Go.

(please don't hate me for this)

[ArcHammer]

I think there's a certain limit until it gets too much.
For example, I will always try to explain to them what they did wrong, but it doesn't mean it's Backseat Administration.

However, I do agree, sometimes I think people are just trying to help and teach people the ways and it may get them banned in some way.

[Wood]

If I see a rule break, I'll always PM the person before BRing, explain what's wrong with what they've done and politely ask them to do a read of the rules. 95% of the time they listen and do it.

I'm not one to instantly post BRs, everyone makes mistakes, I did when I first played and people helped me, and now I've got to a point I feel I am a decent RPer.

If you kill a rulebreaker, your as bad as them for breaking the rules. Two wrongs don't make a right, as the saying goes.

[Zan]

Inb4 the backseat administration team

Ciyrl



OT:



I do agree with you, minges can get out of hand and cause the whole server to suffer, so it is understandable. However a rule is a rule. I don't agree with the fact that the backseat administrators get more of a hefty punishment that the minges themselves.



All in all, it's the admins job to deal with these such things. If there aren't any on, as you said make a BR.

[HellShell]

Depends on the severity of the rulebreak how I would make my call, if it'd heavy rulebreaking make sure to have an admin in your friendslist and get some screenshots, so that when they come on but it has stopped you can still show them the evidence.

[Nevy]

This is the one rule that I personally cannot handle. I follow the rule to an extent but it is certainly painful to just watch a minge run about freely.

In extreme cases, the rule has to be bent. The rule is there to make sure that RP can continue even with a minge running about, but there are times when RP is impossible (Prop-pusher, Someone spawning huge props, RDMer, Random Tranq'er) that in most cases the majority of the server comes together in order to put an end to it. 

Here is an example of an extreme case:




The video clearly shows that mostly the whole server comes together in order to stop the minge. Only problem with these actions are that they are temporary. Nothing we can do to get them off of the server. No matter how much we wish there was a way (Such as a vote-kick system) there is people that would say that would be abused. 

To respond to your comment saying there is not much you can do, I assure you there is always some sort of way to deal with the problem. 

• To deal with prop block, I believe that using a molotov is appropriate in extreme cases (Blocking City Tunnel, roads, buildings, etc). Don't concern yourself with someone prop blocking themselves in a building (That can be dealt with via screenshots and making a Ban Request).
  
• To deal with general minges, I suggest some things for the police officer. I mean, they are there to protect the city and all! For me, I simply wait for a minge to jaywalk and then they are in the slammer for 15 mins. During this time everyone can regroup and start posting evidence onto the forums to try and get them off. Contacting admins to issue a remote ban via screenshots is the easiest and most efficient way because it can limit the damage caused onto the server by the player. 
  
• To deal with a CDMer, police can see this as an IC offense and simply shoot them out of their car if they are refusing to stop. (At some point a non-lethal way to remove them from their car is going to be added) and then impound their vehicle for a while until the person wants to pay (Doubt this is going to happen, so that is good). If they rejoin, so be it. Next time they start running people over you just repeat the process.
  
• To deal with an RDMer, again this is an IC offense as well. 15 minutes should be an appropriate time for murder (Make sure to have a jail guard).
  
• To deal with a person that is randomly tranquilizing people, this is what I certainly hate. It is my biggest annoyance. Just recently I dealt with a person that targeted me personally and would tranquilize me from far away and then AWP me. Nothing worse than that. Simply find them and arrest them if they are caught in the act. I believe DamageLogs can provide information that can tell if a person shoots another person with a Tranq gun. If so, just have an admin look into that and maybe they can provide the DamageLogs in your Ban Request.
  

In general, it is just best to have FRAPS open but not always recording. Have it on a lower quality (Half-Size) and running on 40FPS. It is good to record but remember to take screenshots which can give a better quality image that can be looked upon. Good to have screenshots of the person in the action (With their name visible) or especially their car (With their name on it). 

I do not agree with allowing direct Backseat Administration = killing/arresting anyone for just breaking general server rules. This could cause chaos that is unnecessary and everyone will start killing/arresting people because they think it is wrong. Remember to keep things IC which can definitely help put a stop to a minge in a more subtle way.

[Safira]

To respond to your comment saying there is not much you can do, I assure you there is always some sort of way to deal with the problem. 

• To deal with prop block, I believe that using a molotov is appropriate in extreme cases (Blocking City Tunnel, roads, buildings, etc). Don't concern yourself with someone prop blocking themselves in a building (That can be dealt with via screenshots and making a Ban Request).
  
• To deal with general minges, I suggest some things for the police officer. I mean, they are there to protect the city and all! For me, I simply wait for a minge to jaywalk and then they are in the slammer for 15 mins. During this time everyone can regroup and start posting evidence onto the forums to try and get them off. Contacting admins to issue a remote ban via screenshots is the easiest and most efficient way because it can limit the damage caused onto the server by the player. 
  
• To deal with a CDMer, police can see this as an IC offense and simply shoot them out of their car if they are refusing to stop. (At some point a non-lethal way to remove them from their car is going to be added) and then impound their vehicle for a while until the person wants to pay (Doubt this is going to happen, so that is good). If they rejoin, so be it. Next time they start running people over you just repeat the process.
  
• To deal with an RDMer, again this is an IC offense as well. 15 minutes should be an appropriate time for murder (Make sure to have a jail guard).
  
• To deal with a person that is randomly tranquilizing people, this is what I certainly hate. It is my biggest annoyance. Just recently I dealt with a person that targeted me personally and would tranquilize me from far away and then AWP me. Nothing worse than that. Simply find them and arrest them if they are caught in the act. I believe DamageLogs can provide information that can tell if a person shoots another person with a Tranq gun. If so, just have an admin look into that and maybe they can provide the DamageLogs in your Ban Request.
  

In general, it is just best to have FRAPS open but not always recording. Have it on a lower quality (Half-Size) and running on 40FPS. It is good to record but remember to take screenshots which can give a better quality image that can be looked upon. Good to have screenshots of the person in the action (With their name visible) or especially their car (With their name on it). 

I do not agree with allowing direct Backseat Administration = killing/arresting anyone for just breaking general server rules. This could cause chaos that is unnecessary and everyone will start killing/arresting people because they think it is wrong. Remember to keep things IC which can definitely help put a stop to a minge in a more subtle way.

This, should be an important thread in itself. Honestly, it is like, AMAZINGLY helpful.
What's your view on prop pushers, though? They're certainly the hardest to ignore and most abused offence.

[TheAwesomeAuston]

The whole reason backseat administration is against the rules is because only staff can decide when rule breaking has happened, some low hour is going to go out there and start RDMing people for whom he may think are breaking rules but arent at all. If you allow backseat admin you're basically giving everyone a form of moderation right, which is a no no.

[Mist]

This is the one rule that I personally cannot handle. I follow the rule to an extent but it is certainly painful to just watch a minge run about freely.

In extreme cases, the rule has to be bent. The rule is there to make sure that RP can continue even with a minge running about, but there are times when RP is impossible (Prop-pusher, Someone spawning huge props, RDMer, Random Tranq'er) that in most cases the majority of the server comes together in order to put an end to it. 

Here is an example of an extreme case:




The video clearly shows that mostly the whole server comes together in order to stop the minge. Only problem with these actions are that they are temporary. Nothing we can do to get them off of the server. No matter how much we wish there was a way (Such as a vote-kick system) there is people that would say that would be abused. 

To respond to your comment saying there is not much you can do, I assure you there is always some sort of way to deal with the problem. 

• To deal with prop block, I believe that using a molotov is appropriate in extreme cases (Blocking City Tunnel, roads, buildings, etc). Don't concern yourself with someone prop blocking themselves in a building (That can be dealt with via screenshots and making a Ban Request).
  
• To deal with general minges, I suggest some things for the police officer. I mean, they are there to protect the city and all! For me, I simply wait for a minge to jaywalk and then they are in the slammer for 15 mins. During this time everyone can regroup and start posting evidence onto the forums to try and get them off. Contacting admins to issue a remote ban via screenshots is the easiest and most efficient way because it can limit the damage caused onto the server by the player. 
  
• To deal with a CDMer, police can see this as an IC offense and simply shoot them out of their car if they are refusing to stop. (At some point a non-lethal way to remove them from their car is going to be added) and then impound their vehicle for a while until the person wants to pay (Doubt this is going to happen, so that is good). If they rejoin, so be it. Next time they start running people over you just repeat the process.
  
• To deal with an RDMer, again this is an IC offense as well. 15 minutes should be an appropriate time for murder (Make sure to have a jail guard).
  
• To deal with a person that is randomly tranquilizing people, this is what I certainly hate. It is my biggest annoyance. Just recently I dealt with a person that targeted me personally and would tranquilize me from far away and then AWP me. Nothing worse than that. Simply find them and arrest them if they are caught in the act. I believe DamageLogs can provide information that can tell if a person shoots another person with a Tranq gun. If so, just have an admin look into that and maybe they can provide the DamageLogs in your Ban Request.
  

In general, it is just best to have FRAPS open but not always recording. Have it on a lower quality (Half-Size) and running on 40FPS. It is good to record but remember to take screenshots which can give a better quality image that can be looked upon. Good to have screenshots of the person in the action (With their name visible) or especially their car (With their name on it). 

I do not agree with allowing direct Backseat Administration = killing/arresting anyone for just breaking general server rules. This could cause chaos that is unnecessary and everyone will start killing/arresting people because they think it is wrong. Remember to keep things IC which can definitely help put a stop to a minge in a more subtle way.

I'll just go ahead right now and say that was probably the best video I have seen so far, regarding FL.

But in my opinion I'd say that some backseat administrating is allowed. If there's a chance that you can stop a propblocker somehow, then yes you should be allowed. You cant just stand there and wait for about 3 weeks sometimes to get your ban request accepted.

[Nyander]

I can understand why it isn't allowed and that is because of many reasons one of which is this, it can be abused people would go killing those people attempting to stop them but if you are going to kill him for breaking a server rule it wouldn't actually help, he'll just respawn and do it again, this will cause chaos in the server

However I think they should allow something called Half-seat administration, and this means that you can try to stop someone who's breaking the server rules with an IC reason for example, a person is prop killing someone you could try to arrest him for throwing objects onto citizens and causing them to get injured. Or CDM you can arrest them for vehicle manslaughter and so on and on