Unban request Patt (in extension Shanze)

[Patt]

Ok, I'm going to say this one more time and then I'm going to let the admins decide.

1 - I was NOT armed.

2 - I was NOT going to raid the President/ Dictator.

3 - I was NOT a hostile.

4 - You don't shoot an unarmed person.

A logical conclusion would have been me being arrested not shoot dead, as I said you don't shoot an unarmed citizen. I was not identified as hostile, so you had no reason to shoot at us.

There is no need to repeat things a hundred times over; I cant know any of these things when you show up unannounced, you should know better than to just show up on the top floor of nexus. There is a permanent law regarding KOS, so there are clearly times where issuing it is appropriate, if one of these times aren't during what we thought would be a raid, then the rule obviously wouldn't be there.

We're not big on wanting to waste all our ammo, had we know you were just two guys we wouldn't have attacked, but how on earth are we going to assume you're two unarmed randoms vs. corleones (all of them actually DID attack us a bit later, something Sourlemon vouches for in the other BR. You would be cool with being arrested upon arrival, so you clearly understand the seriousness of going to the top of nexus without telling anyone.

[SourLemon]

The raid on you was way after this, but the rule states,  "Non-officials are not allowed to pass the Nexus desk, if you do, you may be arrested or shot if identified as hostile."  It clearly say unless identified as hostile. You have to identify them first.

[Patt]

It clearly say unless identified as hostile. You have to identify them first.

We had no idea whom the occupants of the elevator were, but we knew they weren't neither part of the government nor anyone we had asked to come up. This together with the threats we had recieved and the guy killed in the lobby made us identify the people in the elevator as hostile. They didn't try to achieve contact with us, nor did they try identifying themselves, we really had no idea what faction they belonged to, and as we know being a dictator is a valid raid reason, so their class ultimately wouldn't have mattered. The situation was tense, and identifying the people inside the elevator as hostile was a reasonable thing to do, the last floor of nexus in our last stand, if we can't defeat them there then the president is guaranteed to die, we can't assume we have the manpower to arrest everyone.

In the video you can even see them exiting the elevator upon arrival, had they acted rationally based on rp they would have waited in the corner of the elevator til they could identify themselves, not approaching us, it doesn't make any sense, like a person with a deathwish.

[SourLemon]

"In the video you can even see them exiting the elevator upon arrival, had they acted rationally based on rp they would have waited in the corner of the elevator til they could identify themselves, not approaching us, it doesn't make any sense, like a person with a deathwish."

You cannot possibly expect someone to stand in an elevator while someone is filling it with rounds.



"We had no idea whom the occupants of the elevator were"



So because you didn't know who was in the elevator  you decided to shoot it up? That doesnt make any sense.

[Nyander]

Ok, I am going to explain everything very clearly one last time.

The reason why I went up the elevator in the first place was because I wanted to tell the president that the lobby defense is so bad and that anyone could have just went up the elevator randomly.(As I did) This is a picture of the lobby and how unprotected it was. http://i.imgur.com/vGrotnv.jpg As you can see anyone could have just went up the elevator, there was no fence there was no one guarding it or anything like that.

A few seconds when I'm the elevator I get shoot at from under the elevator, and I didn't know what the reason was but surely as a government official you do NOT shoot your gun unless shot at, and I didn't shoot or intend to shoot anyone.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that I've stated so many times and please understand me this time. "Non-officials are not allowed to pass the Nexus desk, if you do, you may be arrested or shot if identified as hostile.” That is a LAW not a RULE, the difference is that IF I break a LAW I get arrested for it (IC) and IF I break a RULE then I get banned/ blacklisted for it (OOC)

Again I would like to point out that you did NOT have a valid reason to shot me even if the president told you to is still not a valid reason to kill someone who trespassed. Even if you think that I might have guns (Which I didn't) you don't shoot me unless I shoot you, and that is because you are working with the government and just because I trespassed doesn't mean I get shoot dead, it means that I should've gotten arrested.

I was not identified as hostile cause I was NOT armed however I did trespass and all you could have done is just point your gun at me and put me under FearRP and I couldn't have done anything but listen to what you say and I could have just got cuffed and arrested but not shoot to death. all I can see or say here that you guys were only trigger happy.

Now please can you just accept the fact that you broke a rule?(This is your 9th ban after all) the ban has expired like 7 days ago anyways.

[Patt]

You cannot possibly expect someone to stand in an elevator while someone is filling it with rounds.



So because you didn't know who was in the elevator  you decided to shoot it up? That doesnt make any sense.

1. Yes, i can expect that, its the only rational thing to do, stand in the corner and press the button for going down, rushing us isn't particularly rational; you don't walk in front of a hail of bullets.

2. We knew the chance of the occupants being friendly would be abysmal, the president was a dictator, and as a dictator i've never experienced someone coming up to visit you while you're making up insane rules and tax whoring so that they can give you an advice on how to continue. I was given a rational order based on the expectancy that the people that killed the guard would be inside the elevator, since this happened like 3 minutes before.

That been said, you weren't involved in this particular event since the corleones weren't here, the only new things you're bringing to the discussion is the same as any other bystander, stop commenting unless you were actually involved.


Raptor:
"The reason why I went up the elevator in the first place was because I wanted to tell the president that the lobby defense is so bad and that anyone could have just went up the elevator randomly.(As I did) This is a picture of the lobby and how unprotected it was. http://i.imgur.com/vGrotnv.jpg As you can see anyone could have just went up the elevator, there was no fence there was no one guarding it or anything like that."


Because the guard stationed there died, do you really think we had no idea the elevator was unprotected? this happened literally a few minutes after, it was the reason we were on edge. As for that screenshot, did you go into nexus after you died or something? I'm not seeing your friend and i'm having a hard time believing you took a picture of just an empty lobby beforehand (nlr?).


"You seem to be ignoring the fact that I've stated so many times and please understand me this time. "Non-officials are not allowed to pass the Nexus desk, if you do, you may be arrested or shot if identified as hostile.” That is a LAW not a RULE, the difference is that IF I break a LAW I get arrested for it (IC) and IF I break a RULE then I get banned/ blacklisted for it (OOC)"


You've been spamming this rule in literally all your posts like a madman, "you may be arrested or shot if identified as hostile.”, there's no comma here, you may be arrested OR shot if identified as hostile, if i can arrest you no problem, then the rule doesn't really differentiate so long as the person is identified as hostile; the president had given me an order so you were already identified as such. If i could have arrested you and that would have been reasonable according to yourself, i don't see the big fuzz. Everyone's okay with us arresting you even though the rule in it self gives the same criteria for shooting. I was given an order which i still don't think breaks any law considering there is a perma law on KOS and the president issued it accordingly.


"Even if you think that I might have guns (Which I didn't) you don't shoot me unless I shoot you, and that is because you are working with the government and just because I trespassed doesn't mean I get shoot dead, it means that I should've gotten arrested. "


Do you honestly believe i can't kill you on the top floor of nexus even if you have a gun so long as you're not firing it? "The government" isn't just one thing with one set of rules, this was a dictatorship, not a normal government, you can't expect going to the top floor of nexus without any risk in a dictatorship when you have been warned against doing so countless times.


"I was not identified as hostile cause I was NOT armed however I did trespass and all you could have done is just point your gun at me and put me under FearRP and I couldn't have done anything but listen to what you say and I could have just got cuffed and arrested but not shoot to death. all I can see or say here that you guys were only trigger happy."


The president identified the people in the elevator as hostile based on sound logic, strangely i doubt you would have cared too much about Fearrp seeing as how you rush out of the elevator instead of trying to reason with us in the "safespots" of the elevator. And of course we were trigger happy, we thought this would be a raid, several of which happened relatively shortly afterwards, we had already received some threats and one guard had been killed, this wasn't exactly just a big hype peaking with the appearance of you guys.


"Now please can you just accept the fact that you broke a rule?(This is your 9th ban after all) the ban has expired like 7 days ago anyways."



When i made this request i had just been banned, this is my 8th ban to be clear (one was double ban, lifted), but only 1 from 2013 and 2 (including this one) in 2014, not that its relevant at all apart from being an attack on charactert. But no, i can't accept that i broke a rule, because i don't see how i have, there is a perma law on KOS, so there are clearly times in which it can be used and i don't see how the president issued it wrongly. I'm aware i'm quarrelsome, so believe me, i've had this discussion before as a president/dictator, and after a lengthy discussion i've been able to order KOS as a dictator several times without admins online removing it (after a discussion on the perma laws).


KOS isn't the same as RDM, first of all RDM is by definition random, KOS is random in no way, you had been warned several times.
"Any government officals is not allowed to shoot on sight when there is no order given!"
We had an order, i can't see how my actions are bannable when its in accordance with this rule.







Few raids i've ever been a part of has had 0 prefire, but that's normally not a problem since that's what happens in a raid, in my experience, when those doors open its guns blazing for everyone involved. We thought you would be hostile based on sound assumptions because of the events that happened right beforehand, but i still fail to see how the president issued the KOS order wrongly, it's issued according to the perma law.


I seriously doubt most people haven't seen prefire completely unpunished during raids, i can't fathom how this is so unique when you blew off all warnings and didn't bother sending a PM so we could know say corleones were coming.

[GeorgeTheBoy]

KOS is NOT allowed. It's as simple as that. When the players came out of the elevator they had no weapons and were clearly not hostile.

Even if the Presidents gives a KOS order, you should know that they are not allowed and inform him. Sever rules > President laws.

Denied.