ubr

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Your name: little green friend

Your ban ID: 52307

Banned by: [FL] Venom

Reason: Bypassing banned props, teaching others how to do it.

Involved: [FL:RP]Futilelamb

Why we should unban you: I saw futilelamb creating a SAM launcher on the back of a truck which used incredibly blocky low quality missiles that most likely used up more props than they should. I told him he could use a PHX AMRAAM prop instead, and told him how to spawn it. He said he'd see if it was acceptable before doing it. The next day he came back to me asking how it was done and thanking me. Later I was banned for 9 months.

When beflok was admin, and we worked together on designing tomorrow, I told him about using buttons to build and he said it was alright, and found it quite interesting. This let me to believe it would be perfectly acceptable to do similar methods in order to enhance roleplay constructions. The blacklist exists almost entirely to stop griefers, and what I was using it for was to improve construction using props that are only blocked to prevent misuse, and the inability to use them in this context is one of the major negatives of a blacklist existing. In this particular case, the prop was blocked due to being explosive, and how it was spawned would stop it from being explosive. Common sense would say it would be fine to use it here. It's like if I spawned a default oil drum prop and used the explosive oil drum material on it.

A 9 month ban for something that was entirely harmless is ridiculous, especially for something where a lot of common sense would say it's acceptable, it's the sort of punishment someone coming on purely to grief would get. If someone joined and went around prop killing the moment they joined, they would probably not even get the same length of time. Having a quick look through the ban list, I find many similar ban lengths feature reasons like "Massive teamkilling, 10 bans in 60 hours. Take this time to read the rules.", "Abusing Hydraulics, Prop pushing cars/Blocking", "BRA (50253) - Propblock/push - No intention to RP (Extended due to current ban)" etc(infact most of these have far shorter ban times than 9 months, and there are many cases of 2-3 weeks for similar unacceptable tihngs). The fact that someone who has no intention of following the rules, and only wants to disrupt the server as much as possible should receive bans along the lines of 3-6 months, while someone harmlessly attempting to improve building(with good reason to believe what they are doing is fine) should receive a 9 month ban is utterly ridiculous.

**Enzyme**

When you use an exploit so you're able to spawn banned props then that is serious.

Many props are banned for a very good reason, some of the reasons being that they can easily crash the server and etc.
Banned props are banned and if you cheat the system to spawn banned props then you will be banned for that. You have enough experience on the servers to know this.

This is an exploit where you taught people how to spawn banned props. This could have lead into people exploiting where they just wanted to harm the servers.

Honestly, this could have been a permaban, so you can consider yourself lucky.

ilmon3y

I was on the build server whilst he got banned, we were working together on a new dupe for the Nexus. A construction site. We had the idea of the shipping container at the bottom, so we had it button'd in to see what it would look like. After that, Vally disconnected due to the ban.

I fail to understand why the length of the ban is so long because of two things:

1. When working with Beflok while he was an administrator, we explained this method to him at one point, and he expressed no concern whatsoever. He was in the same disposition as us to believe that this method couldn't have a fully malicious impact on either the build or RP server.
2. Since there wasn't, at the least, a first warning given to any of us about this, 9 months seems simply overkill. Many players who had no other intention but to cause grief and disrupt the server however possible were only given bans of a similar length after their first punishment.

Quote:Many props are banned for a very good reason, some of the reasons being that they can easily crash the server

Not possible this way.

**Fultz**

The prop was banned for a reason. Banned means you are unable to access that prop because we felt that it should not be used. It doesnt matter if it is malicious or not. It is going around what we set up for our players. Creating a button as a banned prop is giving you access to a prop we do not allow our players to use. You were going around our lay out by abusing buttons.

Do you understand why this is wrong?

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(08-15-2014, 08:38 AM)Fultzy Wrote: The prop was banned for a reason. Banned means you are unable to access that prop because we felt that it should not be used. It doesnt matter if it is malicious or not. It is going around what we set up for our players. Creating a button as a banned prop is giving you access to a prop we do not allow our players to use. You were going around our lay out by abusing buttons.

Do you understand why this is wrong?

Most props are banned because they're used for either prop killing, they're used for prop blocking, or they're explosive. In this case the prop was banned because it's explosive, and a button is unbreakable, so there is absolutely no harm in it being spawned.

I don't understand how such a harmless action is wrong to the point where it deserves a 9 month ban. Not even those that join with purely the intention to disrupt and damage the server get such long bans most of the time, most are in the range of 1-3 months. Even people that make no attempt whatsoever to follow the rules and repeatedly carry out unacceptable actions(such as rdm, teamkilling, random vehicle theft, prop pushing etc) would only get this sort punishment after 10 bans or so.

**Enzyme**

Quote:General Rules

1. Using cheats, hacks or abusing glitches is under zero tolerance and will lead to a permanent ban.

Explain to me how you didn't break this rule, and then explain to me how it's unfair that you got 9 months when you could have gotten a permaban.

You got around banned props by tricking the system by spawning it as a button. This is exploiting.

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(08-16-2014, 01:26 AM)Enzyme Wrote:
Quote:General Rules

1. Using cheats, hacks or abusing glitches is under zero tolerance and will lead to a permanent ban.

Explain to me how you didn't break this rule, and then explain to me how it's unfair that you got 9 months when you could have gotten a permaban.

You got around banned props by tricking the system by spawning it as a button. This is exploiting.

It's very clear that it's not zero tolerance, or else any tiny exploitation would be instant permaban, you see people exploiting minor harmless bugs every day. For example exploiting animations to dance in cars, exploiting camera glitches to see through walls, clipping held props through walls etc. Even stuff used to disrupt roleplay like glitching through walls with chairs, spawning vehicles in areas they shouldnt be spawned, abusing hydraulics etc would face very minor punishments. Searching through the unban requests, with the exclusion of people exploiting to get items/money, most bans are from 1 week to 3 months. One case I found that was almost identical received a punishment of 1 month(http://www.fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?tid=37542).

Quote:and then explain to me how it's unfair that you got 9 months when you could have gotten a permaban.

As I've said, people doing similar things have received bans from 1 week to 3 months. Why should I get a 9 month ban and be told I'm lucky it's not permanent, while someone should recieve a 1 month ban for exactly the same thing. Is fair giving someone 9 times the ban length as someone else for an identical offence just because you technically could have permabanned them?

I caused absolutely no harm, and my only intention was to improve roleplay, if I had just joined the server for the first time with purely the intention to disrupt roleplay through prop killing, mass rdm, mass cdm etc, I would probably at most have gotten a 3 month ban. If I made no attempt to follow the rules whatsoever, I would only receive this punishment after maybe 10-15 bans. The length of the ban(and the fact that you're telling me I'm lucky I'm not permabanned) seems to be more jumping on an ability to hand out as harsh a punishment as possible on a technicality than actually attempting to be fair and look after the server.

How is it fair that those who only want to disrupt the server, or have no intention of following the rules even after their number of bans start to rival their hours on the server receive far less harsh punishment, but someone that has been following the rules almost perfectly for 3 years is told that they're lucky they're not permabanned for a harmless action?

Quote:You got around banned props by tricking the system by spawning it as a button. This is exploiting.

The particular prop in question was an AMRAAM, which is banned because it's explosive. Since it was a button, it was no longer explosive, so it's not too unreasonable to say what I spawned was not the prop, but just something identical looking. If this is bannable, where does the limit end? Would spawning a standard oil drum and materializing it to look like an explosive oil drum be bannable? Would constructing something almost identical out of other props be bannable? Where does this technically end? A drug lab model for example is not allowed to avoid people creating fake contraband, if I created one out of other props, would that be the same?

**Enzyme**

You're quite mistaken when you claim that people who put hydraulics on cars get a mild punishment. I just issued a year ban for someone who did that, and the only reason it wasn't a permaban was because it was his first ban.

The problem here in this case is that you don't realize how you were wrong, and how serious what you did was. You keep making excuses with how harmless the prop you spawned was, but you fail to forsee the possible future uses of this exploit that you were teaching to others.

Banned props are banned props, and you cannot make up excuses to justify why it should be allowed to get around the system to spawn these banned props.

You did use an exploit to spawn a banned prop, and it's as simple as that. You should be glad it wasn't a permaban in my opinion.

WhiteFusion

User has been warned for this post. Reason:

(08-17-2014, 03:21 PM)Enzyme Wrote: You're quite mistaken when you claim that people who put hydraulics on cars get a mild punishment. I just issued a year ban for someone who did that, and the only reason it wasn't a permaban was because it was his first ban.

You're not the whole administration team. You make sure that other admins follow their jobs and at the same time do yours. Some admins will be lenient and some won't. Also, you're portraying that you been lenient like others by banning someone for a year instead of the rule stating they should've been permabanned.

Quote:The problem here in this case is that you don't realize how you were wrong, and how serious what you did was. You keep making excuses with how harmless the prop you spawned was, but you fail to forsee the possible future uses of this exploit that you were teaching to others.

You keep taking the issue way out of proportion. He's spawning a deactivated explosive that can't do harm to anyone because of it losing the ability to explode. Simply becoming a normal prop like everything else. I can understand the larger objects, but even then some admins will instantly go, "Someone's spaming large props. Ban them."

Quote:Banned props are banned props, and you cannot make up excuses to justify why it should be allowed to get around the system to spawn these banned props.

Excluding large props because I talked about it, do you personally think objects that had a dangerous property (explosive) was to be removed due to the exploit warrant a ban because it was a dangerous beforehand?

Not involved. Warned

-Fultz

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(08-17-2014, 03:21 PM)Enzyme Wrote: You're quite mistaken when you claim that people who put hydraulics on cars get a mild punishment. I just issued a year ban for someone who did that, and the only reason it wasn't a permaban was because it was his first ban.

The problem here in this case is that you don't realize how you were wrong, and how serious what you did was. You keep making excuses with how harmless the prop you spawned was, but you fail to forsee the possible future uses of this exploit that you were teaching to others.

Banned props are banned props, and you cannot make up excuses to justify why it should be allowed to get around the system to spawn these banned props.

You did use an exploit to spawn a banned prop, and it's as simple as that. You should be glad it wasn't a permaban in my opinion.

It may have been wrong to spawn a banned prop, but it's nowhere near worthy of 9 months, especially since people who have done the exact same(including members of the current administrator team)have only recieved one month or less, even when they've used exploits to spawn still explosive Mk82 props and kill with them.
http://www.fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?tid=39191
http://www.fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?tid=39276
http://www.fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?tid=26511
http://www.fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?tid=20222
http://www.fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?tid=37290
http://www.fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?tid=42097

How come all these people receive bans of far shorter length for doing the exact same as me or worse? And how come so many people have recieved far shorter bans for either not even trying to follow the rules after 10-15 bans, or just straight up prop killing with no intention of RPing here? I had a brief look at the bans list and this is what I found

Spoiler :

How come if I joined the server with only having the interest of disrupting roleplay deliberately by doing things that would never be acceptable, such as massive prop killing, I would have received a far shorter ban than this? And what makes all these other ban cases involving spawning banned props much more acceptable than what I did? Why do I get a ban 9 times longer than someone spawning hundreds of still explosive Mk82's and killing with them, and telling others how to do it?