Community Update - Future of Events

[Haarek]

Oh sire would you please be so fond to enlighten me with your big words..

I wrote that it can be distributed in an unhealthy way - which as you mentioned yourself is a "felt" inflation. I am deeply saddened that this is the most entertaining argument on this forum.

[RaZZ]

Disallowing casinos is such a counter productive move. Why limit the amount of establishments allowed on a cityrp server. Every other type of passiveRp is extremely unrewarding for most players while setting up a casino lets players make good money while contributing to the liveliness of the city. Everything from shitty spin the wheels to establishments like the Lucky 7 were main hotspots for a reason. Also you are really clueless if you think inflation had anything to do with casinos. If anything one could view it as anti-inflationary considering it took away a large percent of the money supply and landed in the pockets of few.

[Haarek]

Why are you so hung up on casinos? It pains me that you are, because it was really not the point of my outburst in the first place. I would rather you focus your attention on trying to understand how additional money systems like farming ruined the economy than keep going on about casinos - I wish I didn't even mention it at this point - Jesus.

[Ludo]

Why are you so hung up on casinos? It pains me that you are, because it was really not the point of my outburst in the first place. I would rather you focus your attention on trying to understand how additional money systems like farming ruined the economy than keep going on about casinos - I wish I didn't even mention it at this point - Jesus.

I think if we're going to address inflation for the server, certain money sinks need to be implemented if those roles like farming and mining return, the issue wasn't its ability to generate money but rather the low costs required in doing so as well as its uncontestable passive earning. Upkeep fees of some kind are a great way to offset this, Red Dead for one example regularly bills player's funds for stable and camp upkeeps simply for having them be used. This in combination with continues need to eat and purchase items for play kept overall inflation rates low for players playing often. There is lots of ways to implement charges of some kind to address inflation, however removing moneypacks will be the largest aid to this problem preventing pay-to-win flooding the market with cash.

[Haarek]

Why are you so hung up on casinos? It pains me that you are, because it was really not the point of my outburst in the first place. I would rather you focus your attention on trying to understand how additional money systems like farming ruined the economy than keep going on about casinos - I wish I didn't even mention it at this point - Jesus.

however removing moneypacks will be the largest aid to this problem preventing pay-to-win flooding the market with cash.

Totally agree with everything except this. Mainly because money packs worked "fine". it wasn't up until the addition of the mining system and farming that everything completely derailed. However I understand how you might feel otherwise as I remember you spent a considerable amount of money on moneypacks - I do not think however this is the mean of the average player.

Here's my outlook in terms of the economy - I wrote this in 2022:
https://fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?ti...#pid880397

[Pollux]

Why are you so hung up on casinos? It pains me that you are, because it was really not the point of my outburst in the first place. I would rather you focus your attention on trying to understand how additional money systems like farming ruined the economy than keep going on about casinos - I wish I didn't even mention it at this point - Jesus.

however removing moneypacks will be the largest aid to this problem preventing pay-to-win flooding the market with cash.

Totally agree with everything except this. Mainly because money packs worked "fine". it wasn't up until the addition of the mining system and farming that everything completely derailed. However I understand how you might feel otherwise as I remember you spent a considerable amount of money on moneypacks - I do not think however this is the mean of the average player.

Here's my outlook in terms of the economy - I wrote this in 2022:
https://fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?ti...#pid880397

We removed moneypacks back when we did the economy rescale and don't want to bring them back for both gameplay and ethical reasons.

I don't see the economy being as big of an issue for relaunch, assuming we get all of our intended changes done. The biggest problem was definitely the lack of moneysinks and this is resolved in many forms, for example with vehicle maintenance, organisation and business upkeep, various fees, item durability and much more. Other features such as skills and reputation also help by making money less important, since it is no longer as simple as just buying the best items from the magical F1 market.

I also don't really understand the negative view on things such as farming, mining or any other forms of making money outside of contraband. It feels counterproductive to completely remove gameplay loops when it's clear that players really do enjoy having more options, and we plan on adding many more alongside changing existing loops to be a bit more interactive and fun rather than just an annoying grind. Every gameplay loop should also feel rewarding and "worth" doing on its own, with personal preference being the primary reason for what anyone chooses to actually do on the server over feeling forced to do something since it makes the most money. There will always be players who min-max, but that isn't an issue with regular expenses and as long as items are less of a linear scale from "bad" to "good". A good example of this is vehicles, they simply went from "bad car" to "best car" on legacy FL. You had no reason to use anything apart from the very best, which won't be the case anymore, as they'll all have their own pros and cons. Outside of starter vehicles, they should all have their own use case and never be completely obsolete, with none being the "best" for everything.

This thread is about Events though, and the economy really does not matter at all for that. Events is focused just on roleplay, since no progression (from events) will carry over anyway.

[Haarek]

Why are you so hung up on casinos? It pains me that you are, because it was really not the point of my outburst in the first place. I would rather you focus your attention on trying to understand how additional money systems like farming ruined the economy than keep going on about casinos - I wish I didn't even mention it at this point - Jesus.

however removing moneypacks will be the largest aid to this problem preventing pay-to-win flooding the market with cash.

Totally agree with everything except this. Mainly because money packs worked "fine". it wasn't up until the addition of the mining system and farming that everything completely derailed. However I understand how you might feel otherwise as I remember you spent a considerable amount of money on moneypacks - I do not think however this is the mean of the average player.

Here's my outlook in terms of the economy - I wrote this in 2022:
https://fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?ti...#pid880397

We also removed moneypacks back when we did the economy rescale and don't want to bring them back for both gameplay and ethical reasons.

I don't see the economy being as big of an issue for relaunch, assuming we get all of our intended changes done. The biggest problem was definitely the lack of moneysinks and this is resolved in many forms, for example with vehicle maintenance, organisation and business upkeep, various fees, item durability and much more.

I agree, the economy will not be an issue at relaunch - it will only be a problem if you are actually interested in keeping players invested and retained in the server over a long time.

You had no reason to use anything apart from the very best, which won't be the case anymore, as they'll all have their own pros and cons. Outside of starter vehicles, they should all have their own use case and never be completely obsolete, with none being the "best" for everything.

That's great - it sounds good. An example of this is the tides truck, a car that was sought after by many newcomers because of it's specific use case in stealing contraband.
A point to emphasise here is that in order to get this item you would need to earn enough money to buy it - a clear incentive to stay on the server and play. If it would be too easy to obtain the truck it would not work as an incentive for the player to stay on the server - and for this to be possible - the economy needs to be balanced and not as easy to climb.

I also don't really understand the negative view on things such as farming, mining or any other forms of making money outside of contraband. It feels counterproductive to completely remove gameplay loops when it's clear that players really do enjoy having more options, and we plan on adding many more alongside changing existing loops to be a bit more interactive and fun rather than just an annoying grind. Every gameplay loop should also feel rewarding and "worth" doing on its own, with personal preference being the primary reason for what anyone chooses to actually do on the server over feeling forced to do something since it makes the most money.

It's not a question that the people who farm and mine enjoy it - I am sure they do - the problem is that they are not contributing in increasing player interactions on the server. As I also mentioned in the post I linked: The reason money printing and weed works so well as a system, is that it gives so many players stuff to do. (Police, other criminals, ERUs, gun dealers gets to sell guns, BMD´s get to sell seeds, pots, kevlar, doctors sell medkits). When you are giving players options to make money - those options also need to contribute the same way to the net total player interactions. If you are able to make the system do this and also make sure that there is a cap on how many systems you can do at one time to make money there is no problem.

The problem occurs because farming and mining are systems that inherently aren't as player interactive as growing weed or printing money - and that they pump up a players wallet in a static f1 market - where the prices are hard set and not regulated by the players..

And you can't blame the players here: i.e. why go the hard route of printing money, getting arrested, raided Etc. Etc. when you can simply make the same amount planting some crops in a field and talk or interact minimally?

Sure you have a solution - and there is probably plenty of ways to solve this problem. That's good.

I am just trying to convey to you the importance of having a player interactive economy that is not as easily climbed - it will help with player retention and investment.

[Ausverkauft]

Why are you so hung up on casinos? It pains me that you are, because it was really not the point of my outburst in the first place. I would rather you focus your attention on trying to understand how additional money systems like farming ruined the economy than keep going on about casinos - I wish I didn't even mention it at this point - Jesus.

however removing moneypacks will be the largest aid to this problem preventing pay-to-win flooding the market with cash.

Totally agree with everything except this. Mainly because money packs worked "fine". it wasn't up until the addition of the mining system and farming that everything completely derailed. However I understand how you might feel otherwise as I remember you spent a considerable amount of money on moneypacks - I do not think however this is the mean of the average player.

Here's my outlook in terms of the economy - I wrote this in 2022:
https://fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?ti...#pid880397

We also removed moneypacks back when we did the economy rescale and don't want to bring them back for both gameplay and ethical reasons.

I don't see the economy being as big of an issue for relaunch, assuming we get all of our intended changes done. The biggest problem was definitely the lack of moneysinks and this is resolved in many forms, for example with vehicle maintenance, organisation and business upkeep, various fees, item durability and much more.

I agree, the economy will not be an issue at relaunch - it will only be a problem if you are actually interested in keeping players invested and retained in the server over a long time.

You had no reason to use anything apart from the very best, which won't be the case anymore, as they'll all have their own pros and cons. Outside of starter vehicles, they should all have their own use case and never be completely obsolete, with none being the "best" for everything.

That's great - it sounds good. An example of this is the tides truck, a car that was sought after by many newcomers because of it's specific use case in stealing contraband.
A point to emphasise here is that in order to get this item you would need to earn enough money to buy it - a clear incentive to stay on the server and play. If it would be too easy to obtain the truck it would not work as an incentive for the player to stay on the server - and for this to be possible - the economy needs to be balanced and not as easy to climb.

I also don't really understand the negative view on things such as farming, mining or any other forms of making money outside of contraband. It feels counterproductive to completely remove gameplay loops when it's clear that players really do enjoy having more options, and we plan on adding many more alongside changing existing loops to be a bit more interactive and fun rather than just an annoying grind. Every gameplay loop should also feel rewarding and "worth" doing on its own, with personal preference being the primary reason for what anyone chooses to actually do on the server over feeling forced to do something since it makes the most money.

It's not a question that the people who farm and mine enjoy it - I am sure they do - the problem is that they are not contributing in increasing player interactions on the server. As I also mentioned in the post I linked: The reason money printing and weed works so well as a system, is that it gives so many players stuff to do. (Police, other criminals, ERUs, gun dealers gets to sell guns, BMD´s get to sell seeds, pots, kevlar, doctors sell medkits). When you are giving players options to make money - those options also need to contribute the same way to the net total player interactions. If you are able to make the system do this and also make sure that there is a cap on how many systems you can do at one time to make money there is no problem.

The problem occurs because farming and mining are systems that inherently aren't as player interactive as growing weed or printing money - and that they pump up a players wallet in a static f1 market - where the prices are hard set and not regulated by the players.. 

And you can't blame the players here: i.e. why go the hard route of printing money, getting arrested, raided Etc. Etc. when you can simply make the same amount planting some crops in a field and talk or interact minimally?

Sure you have a solution - and there is probably plenty of ways to solve this problem. That's good.

I am just trying to convey to you the importance of having a player interactive economy that is not as easily climbed - it will help with player retention and investment.

what a gigachad comment