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07-21-2020, 03:06 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2022, 01:08 AM by Fearless Community.
Edit Reason: Fixed Encoding
)
As I am part of the Developers I believe I can give some insights and also counter some of your arguments as some of them are...
To reply to OP, read what I wrote about half a month ago: https://fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?ti...#pid850734
@'Syntax' contributor applications are mainly handled by the Contributor liaison or the SA developer if the contributor liaison is not responding in a timely manner. In your case, Conn actually responded to your application within 5 hours and gave you a task by then, your last task was given 10 days after your application was posted, which you finished the same day, in fact, you finished all tasks same day as you received them. I believe it was shortly after finishing the last task that you deleted your application, which then renders the application as retracted. I believe you messaged Conn after some time asking about the application, I can't exactly tell as your application is still deleted to this day.
Falcon I can only agree with your last post, I personally am not motivated by getting any form of payment, the amount I can make from a gmod community like FL would not be anything compared to what I get for working more hours at my job. About 3 weeks ago I wrote to Divey about the motivation in the team, how we felt like he was not owning up to his promises and such, here you have a small draft from what I said (We had a long discussion forth and back about motivation and activity, perhaps I'll upload the whole conversation)
![[Image: APNdr1B.png]](https://i.imgur.com/APNdr1B.png)
![[Image: 009EuLu.png]](https://i.imgur.com/009EuLu.png)
![[Image: BJHXJwv.png]](https://i.imgur.com/BJHXJwv.png)
Dimitris coming with criticism is no way what developers get demotivated by, in fact getting criticism is only healthy and everyone should know that criticism is something you should be able to take. If you want to criticize an update go ahead, however, don't go and throw shit and be like "This update is pure shit, should never have been made", saying something along those lines is just shitting on developers and not what I would call criticism. If you want to get something out of it, perhaps having a different approach would be helpful: "I don't like part XYZ of this update because of ... I believe the update would have been better if it had been approached like ...". That kind of criticism is something that can be used and taken in, we would know how to act on it and know WHY you felt like the update was not in your taste.
An example could be the property system which I made back in the day, people did not like the fact you had to go to an NPC to purchase a property, did we go cry about the fact you didn't like that even though a ton of hours was used on making it? Not exactly, the NPC was removed and the ability to purchase a property at the doors was introduced. (Not by me, but Avgar due to my resignation) The core of the property system was kept as people liked that, but the part people did not enjoy was removed because the community wanted it that way.
@'JohnJong' For the first part of your message, read my reply to Dimitris, pretty much the same situation.
While you've given a comment about Developers, I can tell you that you don't have the full picture of what is going on, and we have nobody but ourselves to blame for that. How should you know what is going on behind the scenes if we never communicate to you, I can't exactly say what other developers are working on as it is their own choice to do so if they want to.
Awestruck: Got a job to take care of, other than that I am not too sure.
Broccoli: Not too sure, been working on Contra update.
CodeKnight: CodeKnight got a work to take care of, and on top of this he also got someone to take care of when he comes home from work. Despite this, CodeKnight is currently working on something behind the scenes, I can't reveal this as it is not my project and thus not my area to talk about.
He also made an AWESOME new AdminCP where both Admins and Developers can do things. This is something that should have been done ages ago, but we never really had any good web developers. - One more thing you will not hear about, it just improves the workflow of admins & developers.
Conn: Conn has been busy finishing some school work lately, on top of this he is quite busy in real life as it is right now with something else.
DarkN00b: Disappeared from the face of the earth
Rylund(me): I personally study full time and have a work part-time to pay for my bills, I am home for a couple of hours a day in the periods where I have school and work. The reason you've not seen that much to me is due to my exam period (May & June) and then I've mainly done Bug fixes and exploit fixes in end-June/July.
I did suggest doing a huge update internally, this project has been canceled though, I'll write a bit about it further down.
Edned: Got a job to take care of, on top of this he is also studying.
Saying Edned did small fixes is not true, he has been managing the servers, done a ton of work behind the scenes by improving the security and backend of FL dedicated / website. Not exactly doing nothing as you claim.
Tomo: Not exactly a developer, his focus should be more of the admin side of things as Conn is the main supervising Developer. But to keep this on topic of inactivity, Tomo is also quite busy by having a full-time job.
Alphaverse I can only agree with what you say, if contributors are not treated equally I can understand why people like you would not be motivated. I can't really speak from personal experience as I've never been a contributor.
It is key to get informed of both good and bads, everyone who has had a job would probably know this. Getting a high-five when you did something exceptional is a powerful and cheap motivator, at the same time it is also perfectly fine to talk with people about what they could have done better. Communication is key.
Arkten Bullseye, you have been here and you know exactly what is going on (At least until you left)
The gamemode is shit and outdated and is filled with things that do exactly the same thing, plus things that are awful for performance.
So now that I've given a short reply to pretty much every point in this thread, I might as well give an insight into what is happening behind the scenes and why it seems like nothing is going on. We were working on a huge project by deciding to recode the whole gamemode where we would develop it after set standards and have all code reviewed by multiple developers to ensure quality. On top of this everything would have been documented to make it easier for future developers to pick up the gamemode and develop something for it. How big is this project exactly? Considering our current gamemode got 130 000 lines of code in .lua files, I'd say it is quite a huge project to take on.
So what is the status of this project? We've pretty much put the project on hold due to the people working on this project feeling unappreciated and getting shit on for the time we spend on the project. The nail in the coffin? The last planned meeting we had, Divey was the one to say we should have the meeting and he came 45 minutes late to the meeting while being in Minecraft/having tea. As soon as he came into the meeting he decided to cancel the meeting because we were only a few developers there (mind you, all developers working on this project was present). We decided it was not worth to continue if that is how we are going to approach it, we've not had a meeting since that.
For people interested, I sent Divey this message after the whole situation explained above:
I recently suggested a complete overhaul of the vehicle system which would hugely improve the performance on the server while adding a ton of features to our current vehicle system. Before working on this update, I required that payment would be necessary to get the update, mostly because Divey in his To Owner thread said he would begin paying developers, but also the fact that I had to outsource a developer with more experience within a specific part of the update. Considering the amount of work, the price was actually quite low, however, Divey was not willing to pay the amount required, hence the update was canceled. After some time he came back and said he would now be willing to pay the amount that I listed for the update. I am now unable to get the third party to agree to work on it for the price, as he also feels shat on now.
I am not writing this to shit on Divey, but I believe that you should get the full picture as to why things are as they are. We as developers do this to help the community, but if we are just going to get shit for absolutely anything we do, why should we spend our time on doing stuff? I know for a fact multiple developers are on the verge of resigning as it is simply not enjoyable to be working like this, I am one of those.
To reply to OP, read what I wrote about half a month ago: https://fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?ti...#pid850734
@'Syntax' contributor applications are mainly handled by the Contributor liaison or the SA developer if the contributor liaison is not responding in a timely manner. In your case, Conn actually responded to your application within 5 hours and gave you a task by then, your last task was given 10 days after your application was posted, which you finished the same day, in fact, you finished all tasks same day as you received them. I believe it was shortly after finishing the last task that you deleted your application, which then renders the application as retracted. I believe you messaged Conn after some time asking about the application, I can't exactly tell as your application is still deleted to this day.
Falcon I can only agree with your last post, I personally am not motivated by getting any form of payment, the amount I can make from a gmod community like FL would not be anything compared to what I get for working more hours at my job. About 3 weeks ago I wrote to Divey about the motivation in the team, how we felt like he was not owning up to his promises and such, here you have a small draft from what I said (We had a long discussion forth and back about motivation and activity, perhaps I'll upload the whole conversation)
An example could be the property system which I made back in the day, people did not like the fact you had to go to an NPC to purchase a property, did we go cry about the fact you didn't like that even though a ton of hours was used on making it? Not exactly, the NPC was removed and the ability to purchase a property at the doors was introduced. (Not by me, but Avgar due to my resignation) The core of the property system was kept as people liked that, but the part people did not enjoy was removed because the community wanted it that way.
@'JohnJong' For the first part of your message, read my reply to Dimitris, pretty much the same situation.
While you've given a comment about Developers, I can tell you that you don't have the full picture of what is going on, and we have nobody but ourselves to blame for that. How should you know what is going on behind the scenes if we never communicate to you, I can't exactly say what other developers are working on as it is their own choice to do so if they want to.
Awestruck: Got a job to take care of, other than that I am not too sure.
Broccoli: Not too sure, been working on Contra update.
CodeKnight: CodeKnight got a work to take care of, and on top of this he also got someone to take care of when he comes home from work. Despite this, CodeKnight is currently working on something behind the scenes, I can't reveal this as it is not my project and thus not my area to talk about.
He also made an AWESOME new AdminCP where both Admins and Developers can do things. This is something that should have been done ages ago, but we never really had any good web developers. - One more thing you will not hear about, it just improves the workflow of admins & developers.
Conn: Conn has been busy finishing some school work lately, on top of this he is quite busy in real life as it is right now with something else.
DarkN00b: Disappeared from the face of the earth
Rylund(me): I personally study full time and have a work part-time to pay for my bills, I am home for a couple of hours a day in the periods where I have school and work. The reason you've not seen that much to me is due to my exam period (May & June) and then I've mainly done Bug fixes and exploit fixes in end-June/July.
I did suggest doing a huge update internally, this project has been canceled though, I'll write a bit about it further down.
Edned: Got a job to take care of, on top of this he is also studying.
Saying Edned did small fixes is not true, he has been managing the servers, done a ton of work behind the scenes by improving the security and backend of FL dedicated / website. Not exactly doing nothing as you claim.
Tomo: Not exactly a developer, his focus should be more of the admin side of things as Conn is the main supervising Developer. But to keep this on topic of inactivity, Tomo is also quite busy by having a full-time job.
Alphaverse I can only agree with what you say, if contributors are not treated equally I can understand why people like you would not be motivated. I can't really speak from personal experience as I've never been a contributor.
It is key to get informed of both good and bads, everyone who has had a job would probably know this. Getting a high-five when you did something exceptional is a powerful and cheap motivator, at the same time it is also perfectly fine to talk with people about what they could have done better. Communication is key.
Arkten Bullseye, you have been here and you know exactly what is going on (At least until you left)
The gamemode is shit and outdated and is filled with things that do exactly the same thing, plus things that are awful for performance.
Spoiler: lol
![[Image: KyyYp3L.png]](https://i.imgur.com/KyyYp3L.png)
![[Image: pau7f1T.png]](https://i.imgur.com/pau7f1T.png)
So now that I've given a short reply to pretty much every point in this thread, I might as well give an insight into what is happening behind the scenes and why it seems like nothing is going on. We were working on a huge project by deciding to recode the whole gamemode where we would develop it after set standards and have all code reviewed by multiple developers to ensure quality. On top of this everything would have been documented to make it easier for future developers to pick up the gamemode and develop something for it. How big is this project exactly? Considering our current gamemode got 130 000 lines of code in .lua files, I'd say it is quite a huge project to take on.
So what is the status of this project? We've pretty much put the project on hold due to the people working on this project feeling unappreciated and getting shit on for the time we spend on the project. The nail in the coffin? The last planned meeting we had, Divey was the one to say we should have the meeting and he came 45 minutes late to the meeting while being in Minecraft/having tea. As soon as he came into the meeting he decided to cancel the meeting because we were only a few developers there (mind you, all developers working on this project was present). We decided it was not worth to continue if that is how we are going to approach it, we've not had a meeting since that.
For people interested, I sent Divey this message after the whole situation explained above:
Spoiler: Message
![[Image: GGF02PD.png]](https://i.imgur.com/GGF02PD.png)
I recently suggested a complete overhaul of the vehicle system which would hugely improve the performance on the server while adding a ton of features to our current vehicle system. Before working on this update, I required that payment would be necessary to get the update, mostly because Divey in his To Owner thread said he would begin paying developers, but also the fact that I had to outsource a developer with more experience within a specific part of the update. Considering the amount of work, the price was actually quite low, however, Divey was not willing to pay the amount required, hence the update was canceled. After some time he came back and said he would now be willing to pay the amount that I listed for the update. I am now unable to get the third party to agree to work on it for the price, as he also feels shat on now.
I am not writing this to shit on Divey, but I believe that you should get the full picture as to why things are as they are. We as developers do this to help the community, but if we are just going to get shit for absolutely anything we do, why should we spend our time on doing stuff? I know for a fact multiple developers are on the verge of resigning as it is simply not enjoyable to be working like this, I am one of those.