Toxic's UBR

[Toxic]

Your name: [FL:RP][F.I] Toxic


Your ban ID: 62547

Banned by: [FL] Fultz

Reason: FearRP

Involved: [FL:RP] DanManC / [FL:RP] Falcon

Why we should unban you:

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I. Incident
II. Current Documentation of FearRP
III. Staff Involvement

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I. Incident - Sunday, June 14th, 2015

I had been running my casino between the two store locations in the main part of the city when two individuals approached me. I had been brandishing a weapon and pointing it at the ground and as they walked up, one of them pulled a weapon. Despite seeing the weapon in my hand, DanManC had drawn his own weapon and aimed it at me. At this point, there was much hesitation. I myself had a weapon brandished and so did the individual who was trying to mug me, but I took action at the moment I saw he was hesitating. To my own knowledge, this was completely within the rulebook as I myself was armed and was facing the individual who had been aiming a weapon at me and wasn't in a vulnerable position such as having a weapon aimed at my back. 

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II. Current Documentation of FearRP


FearRP - http://www.fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?tid=42172

FearRP is when your character is threatened with a weapon or a tazer. When threatened by a weapon (meaning the weapon is pointed at you or is reasonably close to cause danger - such as in the same room or near you, where the person can obviously shoot within two seconds), your character is to obey the armed person. 

According to the following documentation available in the Useful Docs section of Help & Support, which only includes information that is enforced and accepted by staff, FearRP can apply to a person who has a weapon pointed at the ground. The weapon was drawn in my hand prior to a weapon being drawn on me, but despite it being pointed to the ground the amount of time it takes to point it is only a fraction of a second. The fact that DanManC pulled a weapon on me during the time that I had a weapon in hand is a violation of FearRP based on this documentation. 

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III. Staff Involvement

In a conversation with Fultz, I was informed that my actions were against FearRP.  Fultz did not happen to witness said event as he was playing a separate game and was informed of the incident by Falcon via Steam.

Chat logs provided below:

(Partial Conversation)

[FL] Fultz: If you have your gun down, and he has a gun on you, FearRP applies.

[FL] Fultz: http://fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?tid=60797&page=2

[FL:RP][F.I] Toxic: Alright, I'll apologize then. I'd like to avoid being banned/blacklisted if that's a possibility. perhaps some form of comp for Dan and Falcon?

[FL] Fultz: Im sorry, I would but that would be unfair to give you special treatment regarding. I will however warn for the metagaming, but the FearRP has to be consistent.

[FL:RP][F.I] Toxic: I didn't even realise it was FearRP or I wouldn't have acted in the way I did.

[FL] Fultz: I mean in the situation you are risking you life to pull up the gun. The only reason it was successful was because of the metagame.

[FL:RP][F.I] Toxic: Likewise he's risking his own by pointing his weapon at a person brandishing. There wouldn't be any surefire way of knowing that it would've been successful unless he hadn't been typing. That point aside, I had no idea my actions would be breaking FearRP under its established principles.

[FL:RP][F.I] Toxic: I don't believe I should be punished as if I knowlingly broke a rule. Not something I'm trying to do.

The case referenced was an incident that involved Jan and was different because the individual was in a vulnerable position facing the opposite direction and wouldn't be able to turn around 180 degrees in the fraction of a second that it takes to simply raise an arm and pull a trigger. 

I offered compensation in the event that I was mistaken (despite documentation that supports my side) and yet was denied this notion because it wasn't consistent with how FearRP is handled. There is no protocol regarding FearRP, it is at the discretion of the staff member handling the case and the incident itself. I find it unfair that this incident, which seems to have fallen into a gray area that hadn't been addressed in the rule update, has resulted in a 24 hour ban. This isn't an intentional breakage of FearRP, nor is it an accidental one. I simply was under the misconception that what I did was perfectly allowed based on asking staff members in the past and also using the What is FearRP? thread available in the Useful Docs section of Help & Support.

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I believe the punishment placed against me was unfair considering that current documentation on FearRP states that it can apply to a weapon that is not necessarily aimed but is within reasonable proximity to cause danger. Considering the weapon was at my side, I don't see what permits him to draw his own weapon on my due to FearRP supposedly being applied to him in this event. According to documentation, DanMan's actions were in violation of FearRP and from my own perspective I find it to be FailRP for a criminal to walk up to someone brandishing a weapon and pull their own weapon on them to mug them. 

[Coded Brain]

The case referenced was an incident that involved Jan and was different because the individual was in a vulnerable position facing the opposite direction and wouldn't be able to turn around 180 degrees in the fraction of a second that it takes to simply raise an arm and pull a trigger. 

These are almost the same situations, just we were in a different position. I had the upper hand over you and by the time you were to raise your gun, I could have fired a round into you if I were not typing a command. My action of pulling the trigger takes way less time than your action of raising, aiming and firing your weapon.

[Enzyme]

I was about to say what Dan just said.

There's no doubt that you broke fearRP in this case.

Your gun was lowered while someone had a gun raised and aimed directly at you.
I've seen multiple cases where players have been punished for this, and I don't see why you should be an exception, I'd expect more from someone who's as experienced as you.

[Falcon]

I'd like to add my input to this case. Dan had an M4 pointed directly at you, yet while he was typing, you pointed your gun at him and shot him in the face. I agree that he definitely could have shot you down in a mere second, if he weren't typing.

Also, exactly before this incident, when Dan and I walked up, I drew my AK-74 at you and told you to give me 500 dollars. You then told me that it was FearRP to draw a weapon while you had it down, even though I argued that Dan had a weapon out at the same time. Then before I knew it, you had shot Dan and I was shot as well.

[Fultz]

Case reviewed and denied.

You broke FearRP by lifting your pistol on a man who had an automatic rifle pointed at you as well as Metagamed by doing so whenever he was typing taking it as "hesitation".

After talking to both parties involved, as well as looking into the logs, both stories matched and had no differences which is why I this ban is in place.

Concluded and denied.