UBL: Jokah

[Old Man Jokhah]

*Answered*

Your name: [FL:RP]Jokhah

Your blacklist ID: 56592

Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:14131954

Reason: RDM/FailRP - Killing someone on the street as a preformer for Smashing his Guitar

Staff member who blacklisted you: [FL] Obay

Reason why you should be unblacklisted:


Lets try this again.


I was a street performer, playing music with a dupe.  I had clearly listed in my description I had no sound.  I have been on the server through most of the day, and several crashes.  Throughout the day, I have been randomly assaulted so many times and the police have failed to do things about it.  After a while, I got fed up and equipped a weapon.  Insert server crash.


Rejoined server.  Started playing music off and on.  Description didn't change, still labeled clearly [No Sound].  The casino owner came out of his establishment after closing it.  I was playing music, he and two others came up.  Two of them were using mics, I chose to ignore the mic queue while playing the music because honestly I don't need to keep restating that I don't have sound in looc when it is tagged in my playercard (the info you get when you look at a person).  I assumed that it was the regular babble, I don't like it, I do like it, ect.


For reasons unknown, the casino owner pulls out a bat and starts smashing on my guitar, then typed a /me to the effect that the guitar had be smashed (destroyed presumably).  I got up from my chair, left the area.  I went into the bank to equip a weapon.  My personal choice would have been one of my p250s, or something else on the lower end of life.  Due to recent (24-48hour changes I'm assuming) changes, my ammo was all jacked up.  I ended up with a ton of 45 ammo with a slew of 9mm weapons.  The only weapon I could readily see that was useable was the AK74 or whatever number is attached.  I choose to equip that, as I live in a house with an AK47 so it's still a complete possibility to own one.  Illegal weapon, sure, but by default ALL weapons are illegal.  I wasn't about to go with a melee weapon, because of the many exploitable situations including backpeddling and pulling a gun before I can lock fear rp.


I ran back out of the back, straight up to the person, and demanded a new guitar.  At this point I had no intention of killing this dude.  Someone called the police.  The man said "the music store is over there", acknowledging that I was talking to him.  I told him that I wanted the money for a new guitar, that it was my fathers and that it cannot be replaced.  He chose to stand still, not type, and wait for police to arrive.  I was in first person and had no sound, so my situational awareness wasn't exactly up to scratch.  I saw two admin mics queue during my detaining of this man, Grub and Obay.  Now I'm in the middle of a fast evolving situation, I have mics I cannot hear, I didn't even want to have to equip a gun, honestly.


I saw one SWAT, I think it was the sergeant, but I kept my gun level on the man to protect myself from police.  I even yelled to the police, explaining that this man had attacked me, and that he was going to pay or die.  I also stated that when the situation was over, I was going to disarm and allow for an arrest.  Quite frankly, my character and I were sick of being bullied.  The man decided not to pay while I had him detained.  The police had over 1-2 minutes to decide what they wanted to do and knew my very clear intent to get my money or kill the man.  They chose not to attempt hostage rescue and to continue to yell over mics for the most part.


Since that man decided not to pay up, I killed him, and was shortly killed by the police.




Obay at this time snatched me up and took me to the roof.  He was polite enough not to freeze me, I appreciate that.  He asked why I killed the guy.  I explained he attacked me, I attacked him.  Should be open an shut.  He decided that I shouldn't have killed the guy and I shouldn't have used an AK.  That I should have called the police.  We tried to discuss this matter professionally, however I had an IRL situation that I had to take care of about half way through Obay trying to figure out how he wanted to proceed.  This led to me stressing out and possibly jumping the gun.  Towards the end, I was fed up with the back and forth, I explained that I needed to afk and that it was going to happen.  I explained why it had to happen.  So for that small piece of the conversation, I will apologize.  Anyone could try to say "well if you are busy IRL than..." but it's not a real point.  She woke up in a rush and had to leave for work.  I needed to go get the gate because I live in the country.  Moving on.


I made one very direct accusation during this conversation and I stand by it here.  That call was biased.  Not biased in the sense that the other person was Obay's friend.  I honestly do not know if they even know one another.  The point I am trying to make about bias is this right here.  I was attacked by a casino owner, without warning, and that was allowed.  My choice of weapon and killing him for attacking me, is not allowed.  To put this in simple text.  Passive attacks passive without warning and rps destroying property for no real reasoning = allowed.  Passive kills passive for attacking him = not allowed.


There is no rule about what weapons a civ can use.  There is no rule saying that I have to call the police.  If anything, I could have maybe called an admin, but since two admins were present it seemed that they were already at least partially aware of the situation.  Instead of making a huge deal about being attacked, I kept with the roleplay and retaliated.




His point seemed to be that it's unrealistic that a street performer would have an AK, kill someone else who knowingly destroyed his livelihood (that guitar was my employment/business asset), and that I should have called the police.


To answer one piece at a time.


Unrealistic to have an AK:  There is an AK in the house here.  It's owned by the small engine repair mechanic living here.  I'm unemployed and own several "high caliber" rifles.  I don't see how it's fail to say that a street performer (citizen) can't own a weapon that a small engine mechanic (real life citizen) owns.


Kill someone who knowingly destroyed property/business/livelihood:  In my experience, destroying someone's lively hood tends to lead to a few realistic possibilities.  Suicide, murder, 911, or even that rare person who lets it go.  Sure, some might be wrong, but they are all realistic possibilities.


Should have called the police: That is a personal opinion at best.  There is no rule stating that I am required to call the police.  I work on the street, sometimes in the slums (apartment area) and villas.  I'm pretty used to having to deal with the various scumbags of evocity.


I took a good look through the rules.  Here are all the ones I found that most relate to this specific situation.


2.1f Do not run into or loiter around extremely dangerous or life-threatening situations, such as a fire or raid, as a citizen or someone without the appropriate job.


-Area was crowded even when I noted the police arrived, two admins nearby.  If you are stressing out about fail rp, how about that right there.

2.5 Do not do unrealistic things out of context (FailRP). This includes things such as anti-gravity bathtubs, unrealistic car colours, watermelon fights, etc. when there is no specific roleplay in which they would make sense (i.e. game shows or science roleplays).



-General definition of Fail RP applied to general context.




4.1 Do not kill people randomly (RDM); only kill with a valid roleplay reason.

4.2 Do not shoot your gun or flare gun without a valid roleplay reason.



-The reason was clear, failure to comply with demands after several chances, with knowledge that death was the punishment for failure to comply.


8.1 Do not hostage players without a valid roleplay reason.

8.4 Once the hostage has submitted to and given you your demands, you must release him/her.
8.5 Once you have taken a hostage, you must look after them until they have submitted to your demands.



-Already established why I detained him, not really a hostage situation, but is all at the same time.  I had reason, I stated demands, I gave the person over three chances (with time between) to comply, he didn't.  I never stopped looking at my hostage so he was definately looked after.




9.6 You must roleplay your job accurately (i.e. do not pretend that you’re a special ops soldier as a citizen or chef).


-I was a street performer.  I stuck to that.  Equiping a gun doesn't make me not a street performer.  Street perfromers also don't have to be good people.  I'm not David Blaine doing a street magic trick, I'm lower income african-evocitian trying to get by in life.


16.1 Do not steal, rob, extort, etc. without a valid roleplay reason.
16.2 When demanding sums of money from robberies and muggings, demand realistic amounts ($500 maximum).





-Till the cops showed up it was basically a robbery.  Well, more like debt collection.




19.3 Do not mic-spam. If you want to play music through your microphone, have an appropriate building set up and make sure that the volume is not loud.





-I had a correct dupe, this was never in dispute, no complaints about volume either, just music selection by players.








That all being said, I not only request that it be approved, I request it be removed from my record.  I was attacked, I reacted appropriately.  Weather or not you like how I went about it, I'm failing to see any actual rule violations that I fall under.  Fail RP based on my job and weapon selection is flimsy considering I was attacked without warning and without justification.  As stated before, two admins were present and/or in the area of said event, so I fail to see why I should use @.  Finally, the admin clearly stated that I should have called the police and strongly believes that, so therefore it's obvious that what he did was considered acceptible so I can't be held for the far far stretch of backseat administration.  It was just a very fast, very aggressive situation.  Don't start nothing, won't be nothing kind of situation.  He started it, I ended it, in character.  I await your reply, I would like for you to have another admin take a look at the case to give you a third opinion on the situation before you jump right in to this one.  I'm not playing word games with you, I'm using the rules as intended.


What I am looking for from you in reply, is to please figure out where you have issues, find the rules they apply to, and state your questions, comments, concerns, so that we can get this over with in a clear fashion.  Or basically, if you tell me which parts you want to pick apart, we don't have to do the whole "quote whole long post for 1-2 sentence reply" game.






P.S. No I'm not saying I want another admin to handle this, I'm just saying get a third opinion for yourself before you jump in.  A suggestion only.


P.S.S.  When I say he attacked me, it was with a baseball bat, not his fist, a weapon.  Keep that noted when you see me say he attacked me.  We're not talking punchwhoring.