What's Next?

[Jimmy The]

The economy reset is bugging me a bit.

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This is a valid concern, but in the end it really boils down to us having two options:
1) We don't fix the economy, this means active players still don't have anything to do but older, inactive players keep their things and may join because of that.
2) We do fix the economy, this gives active players something to do again but older players might be put off by not having everything again.

We're going for option 2 because our focus is on giving those who do play more to do. This isn't a decision we took lightly at all and discussed for ages, it's just in the end it makes sense for us to focus on what we actually have right now versus potential old players that may or may not come back. We're spending a lot of time making sure we're getting it right, you can view the final document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1i0ES...sp=sharing

Why would you go for option 2 which consists of literally 30 people compared to the THOUSANDS of people that have invested time into the server?

This whole metric of fixing the economy via wiping is beyond stupid. You can literally just create money sinks and it'll do the same and people will still be able to keep their money.

All you're going to do is make it even less likely for people to want to come back as they're going to come back and lose nearly 50% of what they've spent TIME to acquire.

I've been part of multiple communities and a COUPLE have done wipes like this and most straight-up died while the ONLY one I know that survived would talk about how it nearly killed their server and wish they never did it.


The FEW things FL has is players have invested their time into the server and acquired items/money that took them time and now your plans are to get rid of these things? You're literally removing the ONE thing you have to offer.

You're going to fail before you can even start.

[Pollux]

The economy reset is bugging me a bit.

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This is a valid concern, but in the end it really boils down to us having two options:

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Why would you go for option 2 which consists of literally 30 people compared to the THOUSANDS of people that have invested time into the server?

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FL has been around for so long that many who no longer play have no intention of ever doing so, a lot of people are no longer kids with unlimited free time but rather adults who have bills to pay and full time jobs. There's no point in us trying to attract people who quite simply don't have the time to play, it's much better for us to focus on the people who do play and attracting new players who are playing Garry's Mod right now. We know it isn't risk free but it's much less risky than trying to attract hypothetical players who stopped playing years ago for a reason.

We've looked at all of our options for a long time now and we're going for 2 for better or worse. There's risks associated with both but we feel like this is our best move. I'm not saying either option is right, it's impossible to know that for sure until we do. It's just the decision we've made and we're going for it instead of sitting around discussing for another month. Our intention with this thread is to let you all know rather than keep it behind closed doors like we usually do.

EDIT: It's far from a wipe, the google doc details exactly what the plan is. Players who have played still keep stuff, just less of it.

[Boonan]

The economy reset is bugging me a bit.

- snip -

This is a valid concern, but in the end it really boils down to us having two options:

-snip-

Why would you go for option 2 which consists of literally 30 people compared to the THOUSANDS of people that have invested time into the server?

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Although the number of old players far outweigh the number of new players, you're acting like the thousands of old members actively play and are subsequently annoyed by this - but in reality very few of them even check the forums, discord alerts or join the server, it's once in a blue moon and is now just used as a go to 'warning' to stop progress, that being there will be a revolt of some type as the older players disagree with a current decision despite being out of the loop for some time. 


As stated previously, the decision took a while to finalise due to the magnitude it will have if not executed properly, the only concerns this had with old players and players who have literally everything possible to obtain within the gamemode was being able to keep legacy items due to the scarcity of them among the wider community, and again legacy items will remain untouched so there is nothing to worry about.


Additionally, with content being worked and improved on later down the line, it makes no difference really as the four Bentley Continental GT's players have in their inventory will most likely be removed from the market anyway and refunded with the descale factor once the new economy is implemented. So there is literally nothing to lose from doing this, it will revive the community and create incentives for players whilst there is no RP going on - regarding creating sink holes, they're a short term solution and wouldn't fix the insanely inflated economy.

[Jimmy The]

The economy reset is bugging me a bit.

-snip -

This is a valid concern, but in the end it really boils down to us having two options:

- snip -

Why would you go for option 2 which consists of literally 30 people compared to the THOUSANDS of people that have invested time into the server?

- snip -

FL has been around for so long that many who no longer play have no intention of ever doing so, a lot of people are no longer kids with unlimited free time but rather adults who have bills to pay and full time jobs.

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FL has been around for so long that many who no longer play have no intention of ever doing so, a lot of people are no longer kids with unlimited free time but rather adults who have bills to pay and full time jobs.

Exactly, many people do NOT have unlimited time, so why would you take away what people have put TIME into acquiring. This isn't a flat 1:1 refund, people are losing money from this wipe and the only assumption from this would be to increase prices of items. So people are not only going to have less money but equally I expect stuff will become more expensive?

Why would you take away what people have spent TIME to acquire, if people were not going to come back now, they'll certainly not want to come back when they find they'll have lost most of what they attempted to acquire.

 You're attempting to attract new players at the costs of alienating the THOUSANDS of players who used to play. Realistically, a new player is NOT going to join this dead server which struggles to hit 50% of its capacity. The only people who are likely to play are those who have already invested time into the server of which you're planning to not prioritise. 

I honestly cannot believe you've logically looked at your hand of what you can do with FL and somehow decided to say fuck the old players of the server and the THOUSANDS. Let me say that just one more time. THOUSANDS of people who played FL and you COULD attempt to get back but instead make changes like this that will certainly not appeal to them. But instead you've chosen to just attract new players?

You clearly don't realize what a new community would do to be in a position where they did have old players that they could attempt to bring back to the server and you're just planning to throw it in their face.

This is honestly such a stupid decision and I really hope you Conn REALLY think about this before you make this change. You've invested money into buying FL so I understand that you are wanting FL to thrive but this is logically the dumbest shit I've seen on any community server attempting to revitalise a community, and I hate to say it but i have easily 10k+ hours on community servers on multiple games. Even when Divey wasn't doing anything at-least he wasn't making drastic changes like this which could fuck FL over in one motion.

[Jimmy The]

The economy reset is bugging me a bit.

- snip -

This is a valid concern, but in the end it really boils down to us having two options:

- snip -

Why would you go for option 2 which consists of literally 30 people compared to the THOUSANDS of people that have invested time into the server?

- snip -

Although the number of old players far outweigh the number of new players, you're acting like the thousands of old members actively play and are subsequently annoyed by this - but in reality very few of them even check the forums, discord alerts or join the server, it's once in a blue moon and is now just used as a go to 'warning' to stop progress, that being there will be a revolt of some type as the older players disagree with a current decision despite being out of the loop for some time. 

- snip -

Ah so this is the logic, 'they don't play so they don't care.'

Fuck me. Well why don't you actually attempt to BRING BACK the old players, who will in return attempt to bring back their old player's friends etc? 

Instead, old players who might want to come back will find FL to not be FL as its been changed so much it's not even what they can call home. They wont even have the inventory of what they used to have because it'll all be changed/gone. 

The logic in this decision is honestly so crazy I really cannot believe you're choosing it. Pollux Boonan is there ANYONE in the team who have stated what I've said, at-all??? Surely one of you is able to see the logical reasoning?

[JackZ]

God save the queen

[Centurion]

I feel like you’ve completely misjudged the issues of the servers and the longevity of this ‘solution’.

The key issues with FearlessRP is that development couldn’t keep up with player progress. That’s fine, it’s a small team of volunteers. Resetting things will NOT solve the issue.

Gary’s Mod is an old, dead game. Less and less people are playing it and there any enough new players to sustain the community. You need to be holding the existing players and trying to reintegrate old players back into the community, and effectively taking 90% of their hard work and grinding away from them isn’t a good way to do that. 2000 hours of grinding and hard work suddenly becomes 200….

You’ve completely misjudged your situation here and it’s obvious. You should try some professional consultation or at least friendly talks with other community owners to get advice. This isn’t a good solution, it’s a temporary solution to buy time for a permanent problem.

You follow through with this:

You’ll have a huge drop in the months prior to the change (because no one will bother playing if it’ll all be deleted).

The player base will very temporarily spike with the new economy.

Your current, established player base will then quickly disappear because they won’t want to grind all over again.

New players won’t come in fast enough because the game is in decline as a whole.

Eventually, you’ll run out of players and you’ll be forced to entrench or give up.

It’s not complicated guys. Someone’s clearly started their economics degree, tried to slay capitalism by taxing the rich on fearless and formatted it in the way of a mini-dissertation to make it seem clever. It’s not. Anyone with a business bone in their body knows this is a terrible idea. If you’re hellbent on going through with it, you need to consider:

A second/third currency which takes into account peoples grind before the reset, so people feel appreciated (perhaps being allowed to buy legacy items before the reset or by having a permanent 2nd/3rd currency which can be old net worth + any new net worth earned which can be used to purchase suits, special cars etc).

You need to make sure you fix your figures. Most people, whether they have 10,000,000 or 50,000,000will end up with around 1,000,000 after the changes. That’s laughable. You need to appreciate the time and effort people have put into grinding and keeping this server alive for you so far and make sure that’s reflected in your numbers because it certainly isn’t now.

After all that, you need to make sure you keep up with content. If you can’t keep up and people out-grind your speed (which they will), you’ll have just pissed off the community and pushed a lot of players away for nothing and you’ll still have the same key issue.

Side note: you reset the economy, the vast majority of the servers for the 6 months after the update will jusr contrawhore the entire time. Doesn’t sound very good to me…

[Boonan]

The economy reset is bugging me a bit.

- snip -

This is a valid concern, but in the end it really boils down to us having two options:

- snip -

Why would you go for option 2 which consists of literally 30 people compared to the THOUSANDS of people that have invested time into the server?

- snip -

Although the number of old players far outweigh the number of new players, you're acting like the thousands of old members actively play and are subsequently annoyed by this - but in reality very few of them even check the forums, discord alerts or join the server, it's once in a blue moon and is now just used as a go to 'warning' to stop progress, that being there will be a revolt of some type as the older players disagree with a current decision despite being out of the loop for some time. 

- snip -

Ah so this is the logic, 'they don't play so they don't care.'

- snip -

Initially, there were many who were curious whether or not it was the right thing to do however this was hashed out by Management and once their draft was ready, it was shared with the rest of the team and tweaks were made and basically 100% of us collectively agreed.


It would be a waste of time to purely dedicate our resources with the intention of bringing back the older players: one, many of them have full time jobs or are in the latter stages of further education. Two, some are starting families and physically don't have the time to play FL anymore. Three, people grow out of gaming and simply don't want to come back to FL as they've moved on which is normal and perfectly understandable.


Which is why we've arrived at the current decision, things need change and directing our efforts towards the slim chance of getting old players back simply isn't viable in FL's current state.

[Cox]

I really hope the crafting WIP is just an old project that was started without your decision.

PLEASE don't waste fucking development time on stuff like changing a UI from one thing to another, its simple and literally adds Z E R O to the game.

Focus on what people want (I swear to fucking god, bank heists, gang turf wars etc) actual CONTENT. Something people can go 'Oh damn, you seen now you can start a bank heist etc' not shit like 'wow, they made a UI change to the crafting system of which has changed nothing'.

I really hope you will be the FL owner that FL needs.

No more words need to be said.

[Jimmy The]

It’s not complicated guys. Someone’s clearly started their economics degree, tried to slay capitalism by taxing the rich on fearless and formatted it in the way of a mini-dissertation to make it seem clever. 

Exactly this, some person studying economics has seen some people have money and gone 'na fam, shouldn't have all that big P'. I don't understand this logic of why people who literally have thousands of hours grinding on FL to acquire their money getting fucked over the time they've put on the server to acquire their money. 

What is the issue with people having loads of money? I can easily fuck anyone up in AggessiveRP with a mere 100 hours on the server so its not for AggressiveRP aspect. And for PassiveRP it bares no difference.

This whole 'everyone has too much money issue' is just stupid and this dumb decision to remove money out of the economy for zero reason is just illogical.