Developers getting payed

[Conn]

Just a question- what motivation should devs have if not some form of IG/OOC payment. Many players struggle to appreciate anything that anyone does, there have been a few cases of forms of unconstructive criticism, or abuse, in the past, aswell. Experience doesn’t increase output, motivation does, and there’s only so much that can be expected when there’s minimal physical compensation for the work we do. That being said, it really doesn’t need to be much. Actual money would be awesome, but only as a reward or donation after the fact, however I’d imagine that there could be some issues surrounding legality and whatnot, so even something in game would be great for recognition. 

I support this, no matter whether it’s in game or irl, I don’t think some small reward is too big an ask, considering the amount of time that everyone puts in to development.

I don't think a reward should be a decisive factor for how much a developer generates output. You are given the trust and loyalty of well over a hundred people. If you think making content for FL is hard and you should be paid or rewarded for your effort you are looking at the developer position in a flawed light. 

It has always been voluntarily and done by people with the experience and interest. Your respect and position as a developer is directly correlated with the work you put into the server voluntarily. It is here you find your reward in the form of recognition and respect.

I’d still be doing development with or without any reward, however when there is so little respect and so much toxicity (albeit from a vocal minority), it’s no surprise that some can feel demotivated.

[Pollux]

People getting paid doesn't raise their coding capability

Raises reason to want to develop.

I assume our current (and most past) developers did not have money as motivation for their effort? 

People getting paid doesn't raise their coding capability

No, but it would likely raise output for some.

Doesn't output naturally occur from experience?

Yes and with pretty much every developer FL has had so far, it starts off with a few updates being released from them which slowly slows down into almost nothing. Output depends on motivation too, which if there's none then there will be hardly any output. I think the discussion is more trying to find ways to maintain developer motivation.

[User 12049]

Just a question- what motivation should devs have if not some form of IG/OOC payment. Many players struggle to appreciate anything that anyone does, there have been a few cases of forms of unconstructive criticism, or abuse, in the past, aswell. Experience doesn’t increase output, motivation does, and there’s only so much that can be expected when there’s minimal physical compensation for the work we do. That being said, it really doesn’t need to be much. Actual money would be awesome, but only as a reward or donation after the fact, however I’d imagine that there could be some issues surrounding legality and whatnot, so even something in game would be great for recognition. 

I support this, no matter whether it’s in game or irl, I don’t think some small reward is too big an ask, considering the amount of time that everyone puts in to development.

I don't think a reward should be a decisive factor for how much a developer generates output. You are given the trust and loyalty of well over a hundred people. If you think making content for FL is hard and you should be paid or rewarded for your effort you are looking at the developer position in a flawed light. 

It has always been voluntarily and done by people with the experience and interest. Your respect and position as a developer is directly correlated with the work you put into the server voluntarily. It is here you find your reward in the form of recognition and respect.

Na fuck off, why not?
Its their own time; I don't see you donating your time to code for FL? Why is that? Can't do it?  Not got the time? Some people need motivation to do shit and I personally certainly wouldn't develop for a server if I got nothing in return.

[Haarek]

Yes and with pretty much every developer FL has had so far, it starts off with a few updates being released from them which slowly slows down into almost nothing. Output depends on motivation too, which if there's none then there will be hardly any output. I think the discussion is more trying to find ways to maintain developer motivation.

I agree.

succeeding in raising the player-count can help with motivation. Naturally it is more motivation developing for an active server.
I however don't think materialistic rewards solves any problem. 

I’d still be doing development with or without any reward, however when there is so little respect and so much toxicity (albeit from a vocal minority), it’s no surprise that some can feel demotivated.

I acknowledge the hardship and commend you for your updates. Since I know you dedicated time and effort into the mining update, we all do. 


Ghostkiller, that is correct. I don't know how to do it. Thankfully we have people that do, they dedicate their spare-time into the server out of loyalty for the community and not for in-game rewards or cash.

[Broccoli]

-snip-

I don't think a reward should be a decisive factor for how much a developer generates output. You are given the trust and loyalty of well over a hundred people. If you think making content for FL is hard and you should be paid or rewarded for your effort you are looking at the developer position in a flawed light. 

It has always been voluntarily and done by people with the experience and interest. Your respect and position as a developer is directly correlated with the work you put into the server voluntarily. It is here you find your reward in the form of recognition and respect.

I think you're looking at it with a flawed light. I don't think you have any genuine idea how the developer team is currently ran and was ran for the past few years. You are saying this is a voluntary role which is true but then also trying to tie it to professional values such as "trust and loyalty of over a hundred people" is ludicrous. The dev team was such a relaxed and unprofessional environment when I was there and that's fine, it's a roleplay community not a job, there were no other obligations other than to work together and push updates.

Saying respect and recognition for a community is a reward for hard work and skill might be fine with a small group but Fearless is not a small group. From what I've seen and experienced, developers would only get respect for a short time after an update then would precede to be harassed and degraded for not doing work and appearing as inactive.

It is true that it is a voluntary role, but this thread is designed to stray away from that and turn it into something new, using the argument that "it has always been a voluntary role" is counter-productive and doesn't get us anywhere.

There are no downsides, literally none, to paying developers for their work.

[Haarek]

-snip-

I don't think a reward should be a decisive factor for how much a developer generates output. You are given the trust and loyalty of well over a hundred people. If you think making content for FL is hard and you should be paid or rewarded for your effort you are looking at the developer position in a flawed light. 

It has always been voluntarily and done by people with the experience and interest. Your respect and position as a developer is directly correlated with the work you put into the server voluntarily. It is here you find your reward in the form of recognition and respect.

I think you're looking at it with a flawed light. I don't think you have any genuine idea how the developer team is currently ran and was ran for the past few years. You are saying this is a voluntary role which is true but then also trying to tie it to professional values such as "trust and loyalty of over a hundred people" is ludicrous. The dev team was such a relaxed and unprofessional environment when I was there and that's fine, it's a roleplay community not a job, there were no other obligations other than to work together and push updates.

Saying respect and recognition for a community is a reward for hard work and skill might be fine with a small group but Fearless is not a small group. From what I've seen and experienced, developers would only get respect for a short time after an update then would precede to be harassed and degraded for not doing work and appearing as inactive.

It is true that it is a voluntary role, but this thread is designed to stray away from that and turn it into something new, using the argument that "it has always been a voluntary role" is counter-productive and doesn't get us anywhere.

There are no downsides, literally none, to paying developers for their work.

Forgive me for my dramatic phrasing.

I still don't think any payment solution solves the problem. 
The problem I hope we have acknowledged is that developers lack motivation to push updates. 

I believe that this problem is not solved with a generic payment but rather to increase developer motivation in other ways. 
You say that there are no downsides; that does not mean that it is the best and sensible solution to the problem. I rather suggest focus on increasing the servers playerbase and if the problem of motivation still persists the suggestion could be re-considered. 

I'll be the person with the unpopular opinion but I'll still stand for what I believe. What happens is not up to me.

[Dimitris]

-snip-

I don't think a reward should be a decisive factor for how much a developer generates output. You are given the trust and loyalty of well over a hundred people. If you think making content for FL is hard and you should be paid or rewarded for your effort you are looking at the developer position in a flawed light. 

It has always been voluntarily and done by people with the experience and interest. Your respect and position as a developer is directly correlated with the work you put into the server voluntarily. It is here you find your reward in the form of recognition and respect.

I think you're looking at it with a flawed light. I don't think you have any genuine idea how the developer team is currently ran and was ran for the past few years. You are saying this is a voluntary role which is true but then also trying to tie it to professional values such as "trust and loyalty of over a hundred people" is ludicrous. The dev team was such a relaxed and unprofessional environment when I was there and that's fine, it's a roleplay community not a job, there were no other obligations other than to work together and push updates.

Saying respect and recognition for a community is a reward for hard work and skill might be fine with a small group but Fearless is not a small group. From what I've seen and experienced, developers would only get respect for a short time after an update then would precede to be harassed and degraded for not doing work and appearing as inactive.

It is true that it is a voluntary role, but this thread is designed to stray away from that and turn it into something new, using the argument that "it has always been a voluntary role" is counter-productive and doesn't get us anywhere.

There are no downsides, literally none, to paying developers for their work.

Forgive me for my dramatic phrasing.

I still don't think any payment solution solves the problem. 
The problem I hope we have acknowledged is that developers lack motivation to push updates. 

I believe that this problem is not solved with a generic payment but rather to increase developer motivation in other ways. 
You say that there are no downsides; that does not mean that it is the best and sensible solution to the problem. I rather suggest focus on increasing the servers playerbase and if the problem of motivation still persists the suggestion could be re-considered. 

I'll be the person with the unpopular opinion but I'll still stand for what I believe. What happens is not up to me.

You keep repeating yourself. You keep saying motivation in other ways. Well, the only way I see it happening is by getting paid since you feel there are other ways can you please mention them?

[Haarek]

You keep repeating yourself. You keep saying motivation in other ways. Well, the only way I see it happening is by getting paid since you feel there are other ways can you please mention them?

succeeding in raising the player-count can help with motivation. Naturally it is more motivating developing for an active server.

I rather suggest focus on increasing the servers playerbase and if the problem of motivation still persists the suggestion could be re-considered. 

[Dimitris]

You keep repeating yourself. You keep saying motivation in other ways. Well, the only way I see it happening is by getting paid since you feel there are other ways can you please mention them?

succeeding in raising the player-count can help with motivation. Naturally it is more motivating developing for an active server.

I rather suggest focus on increasing the servers playerbase and if the problem of motivation still persists the suggestion could be re-considered. 

"focus on increasing the player base" For the player base to increase one of the main factors is updates? At this current state there is absolutely no form of motivation for the devs to keep on releasing projects.

[Haarek]

"focus on increasing the player base" For the player base to increase one of the main factors is updates? At this current state there is absolutely no form of motivation for the devs to keep on releasing projects.

There is little to no correlation between a long-term increased playerbase and updates. This is evident from the mining update. 


I would much rather prefer you use this thread (here I have also suggested a way to increase server population in post #19)

 https://www.fearlessrp.net/showthread.php?tid=94822  if you have any objections to that claim.