Report: Grapefruit

[DentedCrown]

Name of player: Grapefruit

SteamID: STEAM_0:1:222849592

Time in GMT: 14.03 (19.03.18)

Server: v5p

Summary: 
- I primarily accuse Grapefruit of breaking rule 2.1 (You must follow FearRP), rule 2.1b (You cannot draw a weapon when someone has you at gunpoint or in striking distance of a melee weapon) and rule 2.1c (You cannot run away from someone when they have you at gunpoint); 
- and I secondarily accuse Grapefruit of breaking rule 4.1 (Do not kill people randomly -- RDM).

The primary accusation is divided into two considerations.
1.1. Me and another police officer saw Grapefruit with a weapon on his back, so my fellow officer ordered him to stop while pointing a weapon at him. That order was given in accordance with rule 2.1f, so it initiated a FearRP situation. Grapefruit decided not to follow that order and he ran away, while both me and my fellow officer had our weapons pointed at him, which he saw at 0:06 - 0:09 in the video, as he turned around. The fact that he kept running away after seeing that, is at itself an infringement of FearRP, because he was supposed to be and/or act scared of the M4A1 and MP5 that were pointed towards him. Thus, he was supposed to stop running immediately and follow our orders, which he did not do.
In conclusion, Grapefruit violated rule 2.1, specifically on the ground of rule 2.1c. 

1.2. The second violation of FearRP was the fact that he took the shotgun that he was carrying on his back into his hands, while he was subdued to FearRP. He took the weapon into his hands at 0:09 in the video, which was a moment when he was still under gunpoint. He went around the corner of the building, but that was only after he took out the weapon. 
In conclusion, Grapefruit violated rule 2.1, specifically on the ground of rule 2.1.b. 

1.3. NOTE: In considerations 1.1 and 1.2 I demonstrated two separate violations of the rules, therefore both considerations stand as separate. In the unlikely scenario (because everything I state is without speculation clearly proven by evidence) that the deciding admin will deem either of these considerations insufficient, that does result in the other consideration also being insufficient.

As stated above, I secondarily accuse Grapefruit of RDM.
2.1. Grapefruit killed my fellow officer at 0:40 in the video and afterwards attempted to kill me as well. The rules state that one needs a valid roleplay reason to kill someone. In this case, there is no such reason. We solely ordered Grapefruit to stop, and we did not say anything about an arrest. Now is 'being ordered to stop', in my opinion, never a valid roleplay reason to kill someone. The rules even say that violence is always the last option. The fact that Grapefruit went inside his base and the fact that we did not have any way to enter without a warrant, means that Grapefruit did not have any reason to choose for violence, the last option. 

2.2. NOTE: My primary accusation (1.1 - 1.3) is in no way linked to the secondary accusation (2.1), so once again, in the case that the deciding admin will judge either of these accusations insufficient, that means the other accusation still stands.

General notes:
3.1. You can see Grapefruit his name in the beginning of the video at 0:01 and towards the end several times (0:42, 0:46).

3.2. I would like to point out that Grapefruit has over 1330 hours and already received two previous bans for breaking FearRP. He also after this situation in OOC told something along the lines of "to whoever said I broke FailRP: no". He, certainly, should know better.

Evidence:


(https://youtu.be/mAUPtgXRdrA)

[Grape]

Good afternoon, Ян Баккес.

I'd like to address that no FearRP infringement occurred during this situation. I had just been raided by the police; in my property and outside my property on the street. You should be aware that if a group of people have the intent to kill me and have tried to, which they did, FearRP does not apply. However, this situation could not have put me under FearRP regardless if the police had tried to kill me, which they did. The rule clearly states that I must be under gunpoint, and at not one point during this situation was a weapon pointed at me. Even if someone were to have pointed a weapon at me and given me a clear instruction, which you attempted, I still would not have complied since the police group were attempting and had the intent to kill by shooting me moments before this situation occurred. Your partner began shouting ''You are breaking FearRP'' before he even had a weapon out, and when he did have a weapon out, it wasn't even pointed at me. You can also clearly see that in the video, the weapon was pulled out as soon as I turned the corner and when yourself and your partner even turned the corner. This validly renders the breakage of rule 2.1a null since I had not pulled a weapon out at someone pointing a weapon at me since no weapons were pointed at me or even in my peripheral vision as I had turned a corner. Also, this does not clarify as 'weapons in public' as this was during a raid. As I have stated previously, myself and my other teammates were in a police raid at the time. Therefore, being shot at with the intent to be killed, I had a valid reason to break FearRP even if it had applied and I had a valid reason to pull my weapon out.

As for the RDM, in no way did I invalidly kill yourself or your partner. You were trespassing my property, armed, moments after a raid took place. I had every reason to validly kill you and your partner. You were very lucky that I had not killed you on the road whilst you were chasing me, however, I could not have turned to shoot you as I was very low on health and was in the middle of applying a health kit.

There was no FearRP or RDM; I simply ran for my life after officers attempted to kill me, returning to my base to defend myself and my teammates who shortly arrived to help me in this raid.

Thank you and have a nice day,
Grapefruit.

[Grape]

I request a longer, unedited version of the evidence.

The reason as to why I was running away armed and not complying with there orders (which did not apply anyway as they were not pointed at me at not one point during this recording) was because police were attempting to kill me literally moments before I ran past you two in the attempt to run to safety whilst healing so I can continue to defend myself.

Thank you,
Grapefruit.

[DentedCrown]

In response to your reply, I would like to say:

FearRP does not apply.

The rules do not say anything about exceptions for when a group has the intent to kill you. Also, we did not have the intent to kill you nor did we shoot you in the street. FearRP always applies when you are unarmed, which you were because you had your weapon on your back. Please read the rules again.

Not one point during this situation was a weapon pointed at me

The mechanics of the game do not allow people to run and not have their weapon pointed to the ground. De facto running with a weapon means that it is pointed. The restrictions of roleplaying are there, where the mechanics of the game interfere with realism.

Your partner began shouting ''You are breaking FearRP'' before he even had a weapon out

My partner ordered you to stop before he started about FearRP.

The weapon was pulled out as soon as I turned the corner

I recommend you to watch the video again, perhaps with a bit more care. You took the weapon before you went around the corner.

You were trespassing my property

This statement is untrue. The slums apartments are a public place. The front door cannot be rented and. Yes, you can rent all rooms and block the hall, like you did. But that means that your blockade is where your property starts, and not the public hallway.

I request a longer, unedited version of the evidence.

I showed all raw evidence from the beginning to the end of our encounter. I did not cut the video into pieces or change the order of things.

---

And a general point I would like to make, is that it might be true that FearRP stops once someone starts shooting, which means you would be allowed to run for your life. But firstly in this situation, no such thing happened. And secondly, you were ordered to stop, while you were unarmed and alone. Even after you were part of a raid or fight, when you were alone and unarmed, you were very vulnerable. The rules are clear in such case, you ought to act scared.

---

I think that everything has been said and that we should leave this case for an administrator to decide.

[Grape]

I will repeat my points to make them clearer to yourself. Firstly, FearRP is no longer in place once shots have been fired towards myself by an officer of the law with the intent to kill me, and therefore, FearRP does not apply. Secondly, your partner did not mention the fact that he had a gun on me, nor did he have a weapon aimed at me whilst giving any orders. Thirdly, after I have been previously shot at from another officer with the intent to kill me, and I saw you running after me with a gun, a raid was clearly still in place and therefore I must have ran away with the intent to save my life whilst both healing and attempting to contact my teammates to inform them of the danger to my life, and this is why you see my teammates coming into slums and helping me during the raid.

I was outside of Nexus, running away from a previous armed engagement with the police. It was at this point when I had finished killing the officer chasing me when I run past the two of you and begin sprinting for my life in the middle of healing with the attempt to return to my base and have my teammates assist me with the on-going raid. You can clearly see that I was not unarmed as I have an XM. I was also not vulnerable since I had a full team to assist me with this raid and had many health kits to protect myself with. It was when I entered my base when the health kits had finished applying themselves when I began shooting you and my teammates arrived to kill the armed officer outside and your partner. I was not given any commands under FearRP and I was simply protecting myself after and during a raid with other armed officers of the law that had the intent to kill me.

Also, please respond to the request in my previous post as it is detrimental to this case.

Thank you and have a nice day,
Grapefruit.

[DentedCrown]

I will repeat my points to make them clearer to yourself.

There is no reason to repeat your points. You made your point, which is in your opinion valid, but in my opinion not. That's the reason why I think we should just wait for an admin to decide, or we will keep talking in circles. 

But to make a final response to your reasoning, I'll give you a further explanation of my reasoning.

In your opinion it is fine to break FearRP after you got shot at by different police officers. But it is in my opinion necessary to keep the importance of the FearRP rule for the roleplaying experience in mind. The rules make no exception for your case, which is for a reason. It is a fundamental rule, that a person has to act scared when the risk exists that this person gets shot. Even a tough criminal, who came out of a raid and got into a totally different situation, should follow those rules. Otherwise that, in my understanding of roleplaying, would be a form of powergaming (by getting into some character that is not scared).

You can clearly see that I was not unarmed as I have an XM.

Correct. But you didn't have your weapon in your hands, so that's why I said you are unarmed. In the sense of the server rules, there is a distinction between having a weapon in your hands and carrying a weapon, but not in your hands. If you would have had your weapon in your hands, the order of my fellow officer would not have initiated a FearRP situation. But you didn't carry the shotgun in your hands.

In a real-life situation: two police officers with their weapons in their hands, running behind you vs. you - alone and carrying a shotgun on your back. What do you think would and should happen, if you were to take this shotgun from your back, while being ordered to stop? You would be shot before you got a change to even shoot. We, indeed, are not playing a game that equals real-life, but a semi-serious roleplaying game. But the FearRP rule is clearly a way to insert this fear into the game. Because without this rule, nobody would be scared under gun point, because you need many bullets to kill someone in this game. So without strict use of this rule, it would not be semi-serious roleplay, but rather not-so-serious roleplay.

I was also not vulnerable since I had a full team to assist me with this raid and had many health kits to protect myself with.

In my opinion this comment is slightly shocking, as it comes from a person with supposedly 1330+ hours of roleplaying experience. You were far away from your friends still and had your weapon at your back. You were even wounded, as you yourself stated. Yes, of course health kits play an important role in such situations, but listen up. In real-life/roleplaying, there is a high chance that one bullet is enough to kill, and a couple of bullets from two heavily armed policemen would certainly kill, hence why you are supposed to be scared of this. In the game, it usually takes way more than one bullet, that is for sure, but that does not justify the idea that you are in roleplaying not vulnerable, when faced with two policemen, because you have friends in the non-visible distance and health kits, nota bene in your inventory.

I now imagine the real-life situation of a man getting chased by the police, not afraid of getting shot, because he is not vulnerable, as 'he's got many health kits'. A joke. This, in combination with the fact that Grapefruit stated that FailRP does not apply, because we pointed slightly downwards, because of how the game works, and not straight at him, shows a lack of interest in and/or a lack of understanding of roleplaying. 

Apparently, in your opinion, the situation where a cop points a weapon at someone and tells this person to stand still, after which this cop for one second doesn't point straight at the man, because the cop walks with shift in-game or for whichever reason, is reason for this man to be allowed to take his own weapon, because 'the gun was not pointed straight at him, so FailRP does not apply'. 

If running in-game with a pointed gun (which then, solely because of the mechanics of the game) means that the gun is not dangerous and ready to shoot, then that would -- in my modest opinion -- cause big damage to the roleplaying experience.

Once again in conclusion, this man thinks he was not supposed to be scared of weapons, because he had a gunfight with different cops before that. This man thinks he was not supposed to be scared of weapons, because he had many health kits in his inventory. This man, therefore, has a lack of understanding of what the FearRP rule is supposed to mean for a roleplaying server. You didn't learn from your two previous bans for breaking FearRP.

[DentedCrown]

Also, please respond to the request in my previous post as it is detrimental to this case.

I responded:

I showed all raw evidence from the beginning to the end of our encounter. I did not cut the video into pieces or change the order of things.

[Grape]

Good evening, Ян Баккес.

I have read all of your points and I understand as to why you'd think I broke FearRP. However, this is not the case. As I have previously explained, I do not have to follow any command that is even told to me at gunpoint if someone especially of the same group had previously shot me. Since I was in a raid with the other officers moments before I ran past you two, seeing that you were armed, you were also a threat to my life. Therefore, if other officers were shooting at me with the intent to kill me and literally a matter of seconds later you attempt to aim weapons at me if anything, I was following FearRP by running for my life. I understand a lot of the rules are not written, however, you will learn the unwritten rules as you gain more experience on the server like I have. Even you clearly say that I have over 1330 hours on the server. This is something I am very proud of and would never even think about infringing a rule, especially something so common as FearRP and in the presence of an admin, which is seen in the video.

In no way have I broken any of the FearRP or RDM rules; I simply ran for my life just after an officer attempted to kill me and protected myself and my teammates before, after and during a police raid.

If you do not have an extended version of this 'evidence' and have tampered with the evidence to give a biased view, please bear in mind of:
       Courthouse Rule
       5.  Fabricating or tampering with evidence with intent to mislead, and providing false statements is under zero tolerance - committing such violations will lead to a lengthy forum ban.

Thank you and have a nice night,
Grapefruit.

[Joe Joe]

--| Approved |--

After inspecting the evidence it is clear that the accused (Grapefruit) did in fact infringe the rule regarding FearRP, as well as quite clearly 'Cop Baiting' by taking a careless jog around the Nexus with a heavy weapon on his personnel. Even if said organisation in this case had 'raided' your base once you returned they clearly were no longer on scene. To add to this fact if said organisation had been attacking you why did you chose to then run into a crowd of Government Forces? The Officer clearly had you under FearRP and while running the weapon cannot be pointed forward due to mechanics. The accused was also in clear range to hear the commands of said Officer. Therefore said Report has been approved on the grounds of overwhelming evidence provided by said player posting the Player Report.

Said player will be punished accordingly.