Why Are Moderators Still Handling PRs

[Marty]

That doesn't change the fact it is working out just fine for the team in general.
There's no need to have it changed, nothing is getting abused and cases still get looked over by higher ranks such as administrators and SA's.

Could I ask where exactly your concern lays, Marty?

Don't have any, hence why this is in discussion.

For people to discuss.

[Haarek]

I handled about a thousand PR's sortaspeak when I was still a mod and did the job just fine.
Many current admins have handled PR's in their time as a mod and did it just fine aswell for that matter.

There's nothing wrong with allowing moderators to handle PR's.
We still have to move them anyway once they've approved or denied them, and personally I overlook them before moving them to approved or denied anyway.

It was pretty clearly pointed out that moderators were not supposed to handle player reports. I also think it should be a role of an administrator to do tasks like that. 

If you say there is nothing wrong with letting the moderators deal with ban requests why not give them access to move threads? 

In my opinion the Moderator rank is not a "rank under admin" it is a trial rank to see how the player would do as an administrator. This also means the community and team shouldn't be placing too much responsibility into a trial rank where you are not sure if he will do it properly.

What is the point of having a trial rank if the person can do anything an administrator rank can do? That completely eliminates the point of having the rank in the first place. 

In turn, this also illustrates that a promotion to administrator is more of a different colour name than added responsibility and trust.

[Agorith]

I handled about a thousand PR's sortaspeak when I was still a mod and did the job just fine.
Many current admins have handled PR's in their time as a mod and did it just fine aswell for that matter.

There's nothing wrong with allowing moderators to handle PR's.
We still have to move them anyway once they've approved or denied them, and personally I overlook them before moving them to approved or denied anyway.

It was pretty clearly pointed out that moderators were not supposed to handle player reports. I also think it should be a role of an administrator to do tasks like that. 

If you say there is nothing wrong with letting the moderators deal with ban requests why not give them access to move threads? 

In my opinion the Moderator rank is not a "rank under admin" it is a trial rank to see how the player would do as an administrator. This also means the community and team shouldn't be placing too much responsibility into a trial rank where you are not sure if he will do it properly.

What is the point of having a trial rank if the person can do anything an administrator rank can do? That completely eliminates the point of having the rank in the first place. 

In turn, this also illustrates that a promotion to administrator is more of a different colour name than added responsibility and trust.

Well precisely like you said yourself, it's a rank to see how he or she would do with this much responsibility.
The point of them not being able to move it themselves is like I said earlier this way the threads still has to be moved and it makes it easier to overlook and have a final review on the thread when having to move them.

To be fair you'd need a rather high amount of trust placed in you already in the first place in order to get promoted to moderator.
Once you do and you get promoted to moderator the point of the rank is to see how well the person can perform as a staff member, and let us make a final decision on whether or not we can entrust them with even more responsibility and more difficult tasks.

There are ALOT of topics that do not get shared with moderators, at all.
There's far more responsibility required in being an administrator opposed to being a moderator, you can just take my word for that I suppose as I obviously can not go in depth regarding this topic.

Edit: I thought it was worthy of editing ''alot'' by putting it in bold, capital letters.

[Arkten]

If Moderators are not allowed to approve/Deny PR's how can you see how they would handle one as an Admin? It is totally fine how it is, especially since the PR's get overviewed.

"What is the point of having a trial rank if the person can do anything an administrator rank can do?"

Who the fuck said that Moderators can do the same as Admin, they cannot and they do not have the same power as Admin's

[Marty]

If Moderators are not allowed to approve/Deny PR's how can you see how they would handle one as an Admin? It is totally fine how it is, especially since the PR's get overviewed.

"What is the point of having a trial rank if the person can do anything an administrator rank can do?"

Who the fuck said that Moderators can do the same as Admin, they cannot and they do not have the same power as Admin's

The same argument could be used like so

"If members are not allowed to approve PRs how can you see how they would handle one as a moderator ?"

[Haarek]

I handled about a thousand PR's sortaspeak when I was still a mod and did the job just fine.
Many current admins have handled PR's in their time as a mod and did it just fine aswell for that matter.

There's nothing wrong with allowing moderators to handle PR's.
We still have to move them anyway once they've approved or denied them, and personally I overlook them before moving them to approved or denied anyway.

It was pretty clearly pointed out that moderators were not supposed to handle player reports. I also think it should be a role of an administrator to do tasks like that. 

If you say there is nothing wrong with letting the moderators deal with ban requests why not give them access to move threads? 

In my opinion the Moderator rank is not a "rank under admin" it is a trial rank to see how the player would do as an administrator. This also means the community and team shouldn't be placing too much responsibility into a trial rank where you are not sure if he will do it properly.

What is the point of having a trial rank if the person can do anything an administrator rank can do? That completely eliminates the point of having the rank in the first place. 

In turn, this also illustrates that a promotion to administrator is more of a different colour name than added responsibility and trust.

Well precisely like you said yourself, it's a rank to see how he or she would do with this much responsibility.
The point of them not being able to move it themselves is like I said earlier this way the threads still has to be moved and it makes it easier to overlook and have a final review on the thread when having to move them.

To be fair you'd need a rather high amount of trust placed in you already in the first place in order to get promoted to moderator.
Once you do and you get promoted to moderator the point of the rank is to see how well the person can perform as a staff member, and let us make a final decision on whether or not we can entrust them with even more responsibility and more difficult tasks.

There are ALOT of topics that do not get shared with moderators, at all.
There's far more responsibility required in being an administrator opposed to being a moderator, you can just take my word for that I suppose as I obviously can not go in depth regarding this topic.

Edit: I thought it was worthy of editing ''alot'' by putting it in bold, capital letters.

It seems highly inefficient to have an admin look over the case another time after a moderator has already made a verdict on the case.
Since these cases can be very unique it should sometimes be tricky to review them. Then after it is reviewed once, it needs to be reviewed a second time in order to make sure the moderator did the job correctly.
This should also take time considering the administrator also has to look through the entire case and make sure the verdict was correct.
I am just stating this method of doing things seems highly inefficient instead of letting the administrators deal with the cases themselves. 

Or is this a capacity issue? Is there not enough administrators that can handle the player reports so the extra help of the moderators are appreciated? - Like it was before. 
I also always thought the moderators job was more focused on the server and not the forum. I also believe this was mentioned when the rank was introduced.

Indeed, I suppose there are a lot of topics that do not get shared with moderators. I also think this is because the rank was originally intended for focusing mainly on the servers.


The fact that you say that you "obviously" can't go in depth in what kind of tasks an administrator has, makes me skeptical.
What is the liability in sharing what kind of tasks an administrator does?

[Rylund]

I honestly don't have anything against moderators being able to review player reports, them being able to do so can easily get them through a lot of different cases and they'll be able to learn from that.
I as a moderator enjoyed during player reports due to what I stated above, you learn from doing it.

Edit: I'll bring it up with the team whether moderators should keep the ability to review player reports or not.

[Hitman]

Moderators doing player reports is perfectly fine. You have to learn how to do them eventually so better sooner than later. As Agorith said we can still review the case and if we disagree with the decision made, overrule it and talk to them later.

[Agorith]

I handled about a thousand PR's sortaspeak when I was still a mod and did the job just fine.
Many current admins have handled PR's in their time as a mod and did it just fine aswell for that matter.

There's nothing wrong with allowing moderators to handle PR's.
We still have to move them anyway once they've approved or denied them, and personally I overlook them before moving them to approved or denied anyway.

It was pretty clearly pointed out that moderators were not supposed to handle player reports. I also think it should be a role of an administrator to do tasks like that. 

If you say there is nothing wrong with letting the moderators deal with ban requests why not give them access to move threads? 

In my opinion the Moderator rank is not a "rank under admin" it is a trial rank to see how the player would do as an administrator. This also means the community and team shouldn't be placing too much responsibility into a trial rank where you are not sure if he will do it properly.

What is the point of having a trial rank if the person can do anything an administrator rank can do? That completely eliminates the point of having the rank in the first place. 

In turn, this also illustrates that a promotion to administrator is more of a different colour name than added responsibility and trust.

Well precisely like you said yourself, it's a rank to see how he or she would do with this much responsibility.
The point of them not being able to move it themselves is like I said earlier this way the threads still has to be moved and it makes it easier to overlook and have a final review on the thread when having to move them.

To be fair you'd need a rather high amount of trust placed in you already in the first place in order to get promoted to moderator.
Once you do and you get promoted to moderator the point of the rank is to see how well the person can perform as a staff member, and let us make a final decision on whether or not we can entrust them with even more responsibility and more difficult tasks.

There are ALOT of topics that do not get shared with moderators, at all.
There's far more responsibility required in being an administrator opposed to being a moderator, you can just take my word for that I suppose as I obviously can not go in depth regarding this topic.

Edit: I thought it was worthy of editing ''alot'' by putting it in bold, capital letters.

It seems highly inefficient to have an admin look over the case another time after a moderator has already made a verdict on the case.
Since these cases can be very unique it should sometimes be tricky to review them. Then after it is reviewed once, it needs to be reviewed a second time in order to make sure the moderator did the job correctly.
This should also take time considering the administrator also has to look through the entire case and make sure the verdict was correct.
I am just stating this method of doing things seems highly inefficient instead of letting the administrators deal with the cases themselves. 

Or is this a capacity issue? Is there not enough administrators that can handle the player reports so the extra help of the moderators are appreciated? - Like it was before. 
I also always thought the moderators job was more focused on the server and not the forum. I also believe this was mentioned when the rank was introduced.

Indeed, I suppose there are a lot of topics that do not get shared with moderators. I also think this is because the rank was originally intended for focusing mainly on the servers.


The fact that you say that you "obviously" can't go in depth in what kind of tasks an administrator has, makes me skeptical.
What is the liability in sharing what kind of tasks an administrator does?

Eh, I understand how you might think of it as inefficient but honestly it's not as bad as you'd think.
In my personal opinion most cases are fairly simple and I can see whether it's worthy of denial or approval within a minute, so not much time is required to just overlook the ones moderators have handled.

I learned alot by handling an enormous amount of PR's in my time as a moderator.
Only a few minor mistakes were made out of said enormous amount and I only learned out of it.
So really in the end giving moderators the ability to handle PR's just benefits both the moderator in question and the administrators.

And what I meant with not going into depth as to why administrators have far more important responsibilities is due to me not willing to reveal information as to how we go about things in the team. It's just not really a players concern.
More sensitive and tricky subjects get handled by the administrators, none of which I am willing to give an example of with the reason being given above this sentence.

[Reebs]

Moderator is a trial position, therefor they shouldn't be doing an Administrators role.

If this is the case, then how is it that a Moderator can ban somebody for something such as scamming? Would that not be considered the role of an administrator? You may say that it is their duty to punish them for breaking the rule, but why have the middle man? Why not just inform the administration team and have them deal with it from the start?

I personally think that the current system is fine how it is, because the way I see it, an administrator could always overrule the moderator as previously stated. Keeping in mind what you said about moderator being a "trial position," how will the moderators learn if they do not get the chance to be able to close these player reports? 

The way that the system is now is working a hell of a lot better than it used to because the few open cases in the Player Report section are being dealt with faster, therefore lightening the load on Administrators. With this current system in place, the administrators are having to worry much less about what's going on in the Player Report sub-forum and have to worry more about what's going on in the Unban Request and Unblacklist Request sub-forums in addition to their duties on the servers.