UBR: Ukraine

[Jonas]

I am posting this on behalf of Ukraine, any reply from me will be from Ukraine.

 Your name: Ukraine

Your blacklist ID: 75085

Steam ID: STEAM_0:0:2596995
 
Reason: 'Killing SRU as president's bodyguard for not listening to commands'

Staff member who blacklisted you: Holdem

Reason why you should be unblacklisted: I was a Corrupt Security Agent acting as a Guard for the President, when he went dictator we betrayed him and I held the SRU at Gun point saying " Don't flippin move! " but they ignored me and kept going up the stairs and I reacted with a shot fired and they still would not respond to me so I layed waste to them with the rage of a thousand 12 year olds on xbox live. I do not see a problem with this at all? Holdems excuse was that they did not have to fear rp in the nexus which made me very confused? Please reverse this as I did nothing wrong.

[Holdem]

Hey, thanks for posting and sorry for the late reply, I've been busy these days with moving plans.

I went to you and stopped the whole situation after I got some admin calls about a situation at nexus where people were, apparently, "RDM'ing".

I went to you and asked why you were shooting the whole government force from inside the Nexus, when you were meant to be protecting the President. Your reason was "I told them to leave and they didn't, so I shot them".

If you were overthrowing the government as you said, by going "Corrupt", I still don't see why you took any action against the President or the VP that were both there, confused as everyone else. I asked if they were hostage or if they ordered you to shoot, they said no, they didn't know what was going on.

The main issue here was the motive of why you started the whole gunfight inside the nexus, when you were outnumbered 3 to 1. The motive was "Because I told him to leave and they didn't". You still had not attempted to "Seize power", or get the Dictator as you say, for they didn't know what was going on and the shooting had gone on for a few minutes. If you had the President/VP Hostage, then it would have been fair for you to fend off would-be attackers. However, you started the whole gunfight for telling the SRU force to leave the Nexus and they didn't. In my opinion, just being 2 of you, you should have been more subtle, and not wanting to engage the whole government unless there was no way out, and since you didn't make your motives clear, no one would have suspected of you.

The punishment is in place in order to make you think twice before using "Lethal force" so easily in such a dangerous location, inside the Nexus, completely surrounded, and explore other possible alternatives that don't always involve characters dying.

[Avgar]

Posting this on behalf of Ukraine:

Thank you for your reply. You see there is a misunderstanding. We we're about to enact our plan to take the president but the SRU arrived and was getting in the way. We tried to be subtle about it as you say and asked them to leave as we we're still posing as Security Agents. When they refused to leave the situation escalated and I drew my weapon ordering them to leave. They did not listen after repeated orders with at gun point so I opened fired. I believe in my combat abilities enough to overcome the 3 to 1 odds as you say. I did use every option I could have done before lethal force. Also I did not order them out of the nexus I only ordered them out of the Security Zone setup by us. I did not think it was a no escape situation as I believed that I could take on the Government (which I was handing pretty well until you arrived). Please reconsider this as I did not break a rule and no RDM took place.

[Holdem]

You never gave me any of this information, which makes me doubt if you're telling the truth or if you came up with this story to post this. I asked you twice, even confirmed "Is that the only reason why you shot them?" You said "Yes". The fact that you never tried hostaging the president or VP, even though they were right next to you, or tried using them as levarage so the police would back away, just makes me doubt your story even more.

At the time you started shooting at the SRU, there were 3-4 SRU and around 4-5 police. You were outnumbered 3-1 or 4-1, I don't see how "My superior combat abilities" is an excuse to not be afraid of highly trained and heavily armed SRU and police officers when inside their HQ, the Nexus.

Because you didn't say any of these things when I talked to you on the spot and because your reason for shooting at SRU at the time was because they didn't move, it makes me believe that you got annoyed they didn't leave and started shooting them, which in my opinion, in the circumstances you were in, would be Fail RP. In my opinion, you're too easy on the trigger, so I blacklisted you to give you a small break for weapons, for I believe you'll lean more from a blacklist thatn from a ban.

[Jonas]

Posting on behalf of Ukraine.

-snip-

They were not right next to us, they came down when you came in. As I said we could not execute our plan due to the fact that the gunfight had erupted. The VP and Pres we're upstairs while we were holding the ground floor. They could not escape from us anyway. Plus they were AFK.  Once shots are fired Fear RP is off, that means I do not have to be afraid of them and when fear rp is off I know they aren't "highly trained" They are children that aren't going to beat me in a gunfight. I can't help you don't believe me but I honor the code to not lie in the court house.

[Holdem]

Posting on behalf of Ukraine.


...The VP and Pres we're upstairs while we were holding the ground floor. They could not escape from us anyway. Plus they were AFK.

 ...I can't help you don't believe me but I honor the code to not lie in the court house.

I was watching for a while for there were some @ calls about it, I know for a fact the VP wasn't AFK because the whole reason the SRU went up there was because the VP called them up for whatever reason. 

As said, you never gave me any of this information, your reasoning for your actions here is different from the one you gave me when I asked for a motive. 

 Once shots are fired Fear RP is off, that means I do not have to be afraid of them

I think you're getting a little bit confused of what Fear RP is.

2.1 You must follow FearRP. Your character must act afraid of life-threatening situations or of any weapons pointed at you.

Fear RP applies to "Life-threatening situations", not just things involving weapons. Just because you have a gun in your hand does not automatically make you not afraid of dying. You are not invincible, if you are in a situation where you are in mortal danger, you must realize that. Initiating aggression upon a much larger foe and well equipped foe, without real provocation, when you hadn't even started "your plan" yet, when no one suspected of you at all of anything, with no way out unless you killed absolutely everyone last one of the government forces, and could have easily waited for a more safer situation in which to execute "your plan", is breaking Fear RP.  You acted like your character was not afraid of dying.

There is no rule stating that "Fear RP is off if you have a weapon", for Fear RP does not only apply to weapons, but to several situations/scenarios.

If you refer to Combat rule 4.1 it states that "Violence should always be the last option." You made it your first option and in a situation with the odds heavily stacked against you.

As stated before, I believe you need a break from weapons in order to see other alternative to situations without the use of these, for I believe it will teach you more than a ban would. 

I stand by my decision.

[Infernaw]

As stated above, the banning staff member is not convinced about the situation you're describing to him.

Denied.