Rule 1.9 [backseat administration]

[aDisabledDeer]

Thank you to everyone for posting your opinions - It is necessary I think to have discussions like this every now and again.

It doesn't matter what side of the debate you are on, as long as you are polite and courteous to opinions of other players.

Thanks again!

[DreeBott]

I can actually just agree. ._.

[Reebs]

I agree with you here. You should not be punished for trying to help other people.

[Holdem]

Backseat admininstration was put in place to stop players trying to take matters into their own hands due their personal beliefs. There are MANY possible examples of Backseat Administration, it doesn't just involve prop pushers, it seems that's all people seem to be focusing on this topic.

I'll place a few examples of BA, some are real cases I've came across as an Admin:

-Person A breaks NLR, so Person B kills them again, arrests them or stops them from leaving/entering a place.
-Person A is micspaming, so person B kills them or arrests them.
-Person A is a minge and randomly kills person B, person B knowing that he's a minge decides to kill him.
-Person A keeps CDM'ing and/or RDM'ing people as soon as he spawns, so you constantly look for him to stop him before he does it.
-Person A, Gun dealer, refuses to sell guns/ammo to people, so person B decides to arrest/kill/harass them.
-Person A rejoins to avoid arrest, so you arrest them again when they respawn.
-Refusing to follow an RP situation or acting differently because you believe the other person is breaking the rules or you want to wait for an Admin to come to speak to you before continuing.

This last one is THE most common one, people get aimed a gun by police or someone and refuse to follow the RP situation because they believe that what the other player is doing is against the rules so they believe that they are "exent" of following rules themselves, such as Fear RP, and will refuse to stay in character. ONLY an Admin/Mod may halt an RP situation. Players do NOT have the right or the power to halt RP situations at their discretion under any circumstance. You play in the servers as a CHARACTER, not as YOU.


In regards to the "prop pushing" incidents, if you see one and there is no staff online, go on steam and find one, I highly doubt any mod/admin will ban you if you tell an Admin on steam "Hey Admin, here's video/photo evidence of Person A prop pushing and killing everyone every time he spawns. I've temporarily tied him up so he can't keep prop killing, what should I do now?" The Admin will either join the server to stop the player, ban him without joining or tell you to post a BR.

The problem comes when you want an admin to take your word over someone else's without any evidence tu support your claims. Should players be punished for helping others? No, but then again your version of helping differs from other people's. Having leniency over people doing BA may seem like a good idea at the time, however it does more harm than good in the long run, hence why it has to remain as it is.

[Sentinel]

Just because someone breaks a rule doesn't mean you can break another rule to stop them. For an example: you need a vaild reason (a roleplay reason) to cuff someone. Do not cuff someone for an "OOC reason" (Proppushing).
If you see someone break a rule you should get some evidence and post a player report. Otherwise,  just ignore the rulebreaker and/or wait until a staff member takes care of the situation. You could also try to talk to the player and tell him that what he is doing is not allowed. The rule is there for a reason and therefore backseat administration should not be broken. So actually I do not agree with you =/

So if someone spawn a prop and start propbashing cars, you have to "ignore" it? Or whole server must leave because they can't do anything?

That is what we have to do or try to talk to him and tell him that what he is doing is not allowed. Get evidence and post a player report or be patient and wait for a staff member. Even try to call one to the server.
Don't break a rule because others do.

Once i did report a rule break who was prop pushing and blocking teh road with frozen fences.. i was told to " Speak with the player instead of reporting him" makes sense....

[mintblackbeard]

In my opinion one of the best reasons against it is misunderstanding the rules. How would you like it if you were tied up and locked in a room for doing something that the other person thought was rule breaking but really isn't. That's why we have admins and moderators. They know the rules and they know what for and why they're punishing someone.