Ban inconsistencies

[livkx]

Hello fearlessians.

Today I'd like to discuss ban inconsistencies within FL between different admins and the use of banning unwritten rules, and not enforcing written rules.

This definitely includes permanent bans and the unbanning of them.

I want to know your opinions.

Do you think there are ban inconsistencies? Do you think that the banning if unwritten rules is unethical? Should the rules be updated to be more detailing, to help new people with the unwritten rules, and should non enforced rules be removed? (Example general swearing in OOC, something widely accepted)

Thanks for your time

[Voluptious]

Its not just the staff snapping their fingers and suddenly five rules have been added and one removed, there is ALOT going on backstage that you dont see.
Staff can have arguments in their forum and not come to a final decition for some time, from what i have heard there is a massive argument going on right now regarding the staffs stance on dictators. ( dont ask, i dont know more than the topic ) All this makes things take time, and we just have to be patient.

Can you give some examples of inconsistencies that you feel "unethical" etc.?

[livkx]

Different punishments for different thinga. I think I might have worded this wrong, I'm trying to reference things like permanent bans for posting a link and then it being unbanned, I think things need to be explained better. Rules need to be more clear, is posting a link as a joke advertising? Is swearing in ooc allowed? Some admins say it's fine but at the end of the day its still in the rules. I think the ruleset in general just needs a quick touchuo just to add detail.

[Safira]

I have had one ban in which in my personal opinion at the time, was unjust, because I didn't know such a rule existed.
The argument was that I should know better, but I honestly did not know it was a bannable offence.
I had worded it as a joke (friendly banter between myself and the receiver of the joke), but yeah. No exceptions.
But at the end of the day, general rule 5.
I guess you live and you learn, and you sure as hell never do it again.

[Zecon]

"The following rules are made to make clear what is allowed and what is not, this is required for any decent roleplay server. We expect you to read all the rules before playing. It may take a couple of minutes to read all the rules, but an average ban is a lot longer than that. It's almost impossible to cover every single detail with rules, so we expect that you use your common sense and won't do questionable things or search for loopholes. If you are not sure if something is allowed or not, ask an admin to clarify.

Remember, our roleplay is about recreating a lifelike civilization - your character is by default a functional member of society, so don't do anything you wouldn't do in real life."

Formula to follow for all unwritten rules.

[Rolorox]

The point is that rule 5 states an admin's decision is final. But this can be overruled by other admins, because it is a democracy not a dictator ship. Especially now with the removal of the Super Admin rank, everyone is on an equal level. So when It comes to things like the Permanent link ban you are so obviously referring to. It is based off of a couple things.

First: The banning administrator has the right (since they have been trusted with this responsibility) to ban rule breakers to what they see is fit and fair.

Second: As a member of the community anyone can make an unban request if they believe it is unjust.  

Thirdly: The banning admin can explain why they chose this punishment and other admins can giver their own opinion on the matter. More so admins more closely involved.

Finally: As a team the admins either agree that the punishment was warranted and deny the unban request, or they come to the agreement that the ban was either unjust due to new evidence or too harsh from majority staff opinion. 

No ban is ever targeted and no admin has the power to override a rule. If anything the ban you speak of in which the permanent ban was removed, just goes to show you that the staff is a lot nicer and more forgiving then they should be. There was many things wrong with posting a link like that. SoulRipper gave him the benefit of the doubt which is what a fair, unbias staff tries to do.

[livkx]

I just want out that I didn't make this thread to flame, or say that those are MY beliefs. I have friends who think FL is biased and shit, and it does not reflect my views.
I want to know YOUR opinions.

[SoulRipper]

The function of point 5 is to prevent endless discussions in OOC/PM about a punishment. You will have to listen to the admin if he gives you an order. There should be rule enforcers on the server which have more power, otherwise it will become a mess. If you think it's unfair, we've the courthouse section containing (un)ban requests and admin abuse.

Unwritten rules are mostly very obvious. For example it's not allowed to spray everybody in the face with a fire extinguisher. It's not in the rules but it's something you can get blacklisted for anyway. I think that if you use common sense and if you ask things to people/admins when you're uncertain of something, your chances of being punished decrease.

Most minges get punished hard, for example they proppush other people's cars with a prop. This proves there hasn't been made any attempt to understand what RP is. And another example: someone is powergaming. This is also breaking a rule, however less of a rulebreak compared to proppushing, so a shorter ban/blacklist should be given.

It's simply not possible to define a ban time for a specific rulebreak, because the situation is different every time. It will also make admins less efficient, if they have to look through a document of 500 different scenarios first and decide which one fits best.

Last but not least there will always be some cases where one admin has a different view on things than the other admin. For example: Rebels can't drive expensive cars. But what is expensive? Some think a Volvo is an expensive car while others think the Ferrari is expensive. An admin should in that case warn the person and ask him to drive another car (the admin decision which is not negotiable), if he refuses to, he should be blacklisted from vehicles. A ban wouldn't be justified because of the different interpretations.

[Baskingner]

I find it weird. Unwritten rules shouldnt be bannable since new players have no ways of knowing them. I already knew that you can be "lucky" or "unlucky" with certain staffmembers regarding bans but in the end its just too hard to be very consistant with a team larger then 10 people.

[Voluptious]

I agree with what zecon stated from the rules regarding common sense but at the same time believe that things such as the dictator rules (20 min pres req. for example) should be added to the president rules section because its not obvius that you have to wait.

Regarding the permanent ban(s) regarding advertising i would asume it is in the rules because FL have had a problem with people spamming questionable links in game, but at the same time i beleve there should be a difference between advertising (www.youtube.com/XXXXXX) and sending a link as a joke (what he did) because in my eyes what he did wasnt advertising