Ban Request: [73rd] Sub-Zero

[Floodify]

Name of player:[73rd] Sub-Zero

SteamID: STEAM_0:1:29008245

Time in GMT: 14:50

Server: 2D

Summary: I was hostaged by a man with a knife. Suddenly an SRU agent comes in and started to shot (no evidence, no one got killed). As knife do count as an weapon he ought to be scared of it. The Agent (SubZero) still kept saying that he should put his knife away, but he did not realise that it's breaking the rule FearRP. You aren't supposed to run in hostage situation and just "start pointing" guns when his Seargent is risking to be stabbed and get killed.

He was reminded of it, but he kept denying that he is in fact breaking the FearRP rule. He said that the "knife" isn't a weapon / gun, therefor it isn't qualified to be counted as a weapon of choice when performing a FearRP... or so.

Evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOsgnJZIo...e=youtu.be
(if it's not viewable then it's still being uploaded..)

[Sub-Zero]

First of all, I came into the nexus not knowing there was even a hostage situation. The man with the knife was facing away from me so that's when I shot as I didn't even see anyone behind him. The corleone there said it was a hostage situation and I stopped shooting immediately.
The corleone was unarmed and the man with the knife put it away, that's when I tazed him. The corleone who was threatening to post the BR with footage can do so. Footage doesn't lie.
Edit: Sorry I didn't realize footage was already posted.
In the video it clearly shows the man who took the Sergeant hostage put his knife away that's when I tazered him. And the they were surrounded on both sides.

[Termin]

Apart from the initial shot which should have been investigated further, not shoot on sight, I believe he did try to RP it after that and when the knife was away he was tazed.

[Floodify]

I have not BR'ed him for tazing the person when he put down his gun, I didn't edit the video or so, that's why it's in there. Just clarifying that.

I still believe that he should have had put his gun down at the very first sight of me when I was hostaged. He approached the man with the knife and when he saw the knife he should have put his gun down already, but he might not have seen the weapon. He did see it "after a while" and he took a shot. Even if I weren't hostaged he should have realised that he couldn't shoot because my life was still in danger, or at least I would. I think that's the most logical way (for me). I personally think he should have had seen the knife since he approached the knife man from behind. His knife is at the left and high, meaning that he should have seen it. The video can prove that.

After he took the shot he continued to keep his gun pointed at the man with the knife (and the Corleone). As far as I know, that is FearRP. You ought to be afraid of the weapon that is used to threat your fellow Seargent. The time until the "Knife man" put his gun was a little bit more than 1 minute, which is enough time in this situation to realise that you should put your gun down, after all, you don't want your Seargent to be killed.

If you find my BR not valid, may it be. I might be wrong regarding the whole FearRP concept.

[Sub-Zero]

I have not BR'ed him for tazing the person when he put down his gun, I didn't edit the video or so, that's why it's in there. Just clarifying that.

I still believe that he should have had put his gun down at the very first sight of me when I was hostaged. He approached the man with the knife and when he saw the knife he should have put his gun down already, but he might not have seen the weapon. He did see it "after a while" and he took a shot. Even if I weren't hostaged he should have realised that he couldn't shoot because my life was still in danger, or at least I would. I think that's the most logical way (for me). I personally think he should have had seen the knife since he approached the knife man from behind. His knife is at the left and high, meaning that he should have seen it. The video can prove that.

After he took the shot he continued to keep his gun pointed at the man with the knife (and the Corleone). As far as I know, that is FearRP. You ought to be afraid of the weapon that is used to threat your fellow Seargent. The time until the "Knife man" put his gun was a little bit more than 1 minute, which is enough time in this situation to realise that you should put your gun down, after all, you don't want your Seargent to be killed.

If you find my BR not valid, may it be. I might be wrong regarding the whole FearRP concept.

I didn't claim I didn't see the armed man, I claimed I didn't see a hostage and I only shot as he was facing away from me. Also we (the SRU) were at an advantage as they were blocked and surrounded from both sides. I asked him multiple times to put it down. When do you ever see police who have the hostage taker surrounded lower their weapons? They don't because that's less of a risk to the hostage than just letting them go free with them.

[Floodify]

I have not BR'ed him for tazing the person when he put down his gun, I didn't edit the video or so, that's why it's in there. Just clarifying that.

I still believe that he should have had put his gun down at the very first sight of me when I was hostaged. He approached the man with the knife and when he saw the knife he should have put his gun down already, but he might not have seen the weapon. He did see it "after a while" and he took a shot. Even if I weren't hostaged he should have realised that he couldn't shoot because my life was still in danger, or at least I would. I think that's the most logical way (for me). I personally think he should have had seen the knife since he approached the knife man from behind. His knife is at the left and high, meaning that he should have seen it. The video can prove that.

After he took the shot he continued to keep his gun pointed at the man with the knife (and the Corleone). As far as I know, that is FearRP. You ought to be afraid of the weapon that is used to threat your fellow Seargent. The time until the "Knife man" put his gun was a little bit more than 1 minute, which is enough time in this situation to realise that you should put your gun down, after all, you don't want your Seargent to be killed.

If you find my BR not valid, may it be. I might be wrong regarding the whole FearRP concept.

I didn't claim I didn't see the armed man, I claimed I didn't see a hostage and I only shot as he was facing away from me. Also we (the SRU) were at an advantage as they were blocked and surrounded from both sides. I asked him multiple times to put it down. When do you ever see police who have the hostage taker surrounded lower their weapons? They don't because that's less of a risk to the hostage than just letting them go free with them.

Well, I misread your statement regarding that you didn't see the hostage (done homework now for a while, starting to see double, lol).

I still see your move of NOT taking down your gun after you had taken the shot to be wrong. They were saying to put it down, and police DO infact but their gun down when the situation is risky enough. IRL the hostage could have stabbed the Seargent and used him as protection. GMOD doesn't allow this, but I'm just thinking out of the box here.

The other SRU agent were already dealt with, as he started to walk down the stairs. I do not have footage of it, but he stepped in during my "hostage" situation, and they told him to back off and so he did. He didn't take a shot or so. He realised that you can't do this;

If you are a government official, and you receive word of a hostage situation, do not run straight in and shoot randomly.

I'm look apart of your "shooting randomly" of course, since you did that on accident. It was pure reflection, I understand that now as you claimed you didn't see me. But yet, you could have told him to take it down. Guns vs Knife, would mostly end up in you killing him. So you did have the advantage, but that's not what this is about.

It's up to an admin to decide whether this was valid or not, obviously. I simply see this as a rule breakage and not valid, but as I stated, I might be wrong.

[Sub-Zero]

-Snip-

Well, I misread your statement regarding that you didn't see the hostage (done homework now for a while, starting to see double, lol).

I still see your move of NOT taking down your gun after you had taken the shot to be wrong. They were saying to put it down, and police DO infact but their gun down when the situation is risky enough. IRL the hostage could have stabbed the Seargent and used him as protection. GMOD doesn't allow this, but I'm just thinking out of the box here.

The other SRU agent were already dealt with, as he started to walk down the stairs. I do not have footage of it, but he stepped in during my "hostage" situation, and they told him to back off and so he did. He didn't take a shot or so. He realised that you can't do this;

If you are a government official, and you receive word of a hostage situation, do not run straight in and shoot randomly.

I'm look apart of your "shooting randomly" of course, since you did that on accident. It was pure reflection, I understand that now as you claimed you didn't see me. But yet, you could have told him to take it down. Guns vs Knife, would mostly end up in you killing him. So you did have the advantage, but that's not what this is about.

It's up to an admin to decide whether this was valid or not, obviously. I simply see this as a rule breakage and not valid, but as I stated, I might be wrong.
[/quote]




If a person was surrounded, had a knife at a persons throat and was blocked from leaving the only option he has is surrendering, anything hostile towards the hostage would mean the hostage takers life would be over in seconds. I stand by my action of not putting my weapon down. It would've put more lives at risk and that's the main thing to avoid in hostage situations.

[Floodify]

-snip





If a person was surrounded, had a knife a persons throat and was blocked from leaving the only option he has is surrendering, anything hostile towards the hostage would mean the hostage takers life would be over in seconds. I stand by action of not putting my weapon down. It would've put more lives at risk and that's the main thing to avoid in hostage situations.

I guess you can see it from different perspectives. Technically he could have walked out of the Nexus using the garage by always have his back towards the wall, meaning he can't be backfired. And so on.. But yeah, we are going on deeper levels here now.

I haven't really taken someone hostaged or been a hostaged IRL, so I can't say what's right and what's not. But I've seen some movies.. but I mean, IRL a SRU agent with a lot of gears on him as well with that gun he couldn't have really hit the hostager since he was behind the hostaged person. May I just say that the door to the garage was closed.

But yeah, I can understand how you tried to RP it.

[Sub-Zero]

I guess you can see it from different perspectives. Technically he could have walked out of the Nexus using the garage by always have his back towards the wall, meaning he can't be backfired. And so on.. But yeah, we are going on deeper levels here now.

I haven't really taken someone hostaged or been a hostaged IRL, so I can't say what's right and what's not. But I've seen some movies.. but I mean, IRL a SRU agent with a lot of gears on him as well with that gun he couldn't have really hit the hostager since he was behind the hostaged person. May I just say that the door to the garage was closed.

But yeah, I can understand how you tried to RP it.

On top of this, if he had a gun to your head it would've been a whole different story. If I had shot him and he had a gun, his fingers could twitch and leave you both in the dust. But, he had a knife. What's the most he could've done after being shot? Cut you a little? I'd take that risk and save your life rather than let him go free with you. But saying all this, I didn't shoot him. I waited until my chance to strike and luckily he put the knife away resulting in him being tazered, arrested and you being alive.

[Termin]

Don't think a ban is necessary, however remember not to shoot straight away as of course KOS isn't allowed and kind of defeats RP.
Keeping your gun up is fine, however you did get quite close with it, this could provoke the hostage taker which is not what you want. A knife can also be quick to kill if he sliced his throat for example when you provoke him too much. Shooting them would only cause a small cut however it is your duty to try and keep everyone alive.

Denied, try and remember this in the future.