Suggestion - Allow Police to use M4

[RockHunter]

For a while I have thought that these sorts of issues would be overcome if the current system of firearms was tweaked. Automatic weapons would be sold at a premium, civilian models ( semi automatic) at a fraction of that cost.

So in this instance I would suggest the police would / could equip AR15's and the SRU's role would not be diminished/ sidelined, they would still have overwhelming firepower.

[cnr]

-support

unrealistic, sru are there for a reason.

[Toxic]

You've put a real-life difference, while here, on semi-serious community, range and bullet size doesn't matter, and for the sake of balance of government forces, which in my opinion is significant right now, police should stay away from M4s. Also, you said that M4 is an agile weapon. It might be, but not as agile as MP5 is. It weights around 7.5 lb, same goes for the AK-47, which is almost same in terms of weight. That was one of the reasons why AK was made in an AKS, AKS-74 variant. Anyways we are going too far into things that matters only in real-life, looking just on the server, i see no reasons to allow police force M4s.

[Image: AK47_M4.jpg]
The AK47 is a very bulky weapon when you place it next to a M4A1 carbine, and since these two weapons are the only ones on the server, the argument about variations is null and void.
It's insignificant because average joe can get his hands on a better rifle by walking down the street and spending some money which is the easiest thing in Fearless to obtain. I thought we were talking about the MP5 and the M4 here, not the AK47(most of the time you can't even switch parts out because they're stamped weapons.). And can you see any reasons other than previously stated (like how you think the MP5 works just fine, or that you see no reason why it SHOULD be implemented.) why it shouldn't be implemented? Clearly stated, in one sentence, so that you can help me understand your reasoning? That's like saying we've gone on like this on the server for 2 years running, so you see no reason for car headlights to be added. The primary reason that I think the M4 should be added is that it does in fact give a damage boost to the officer using it and , it does more damage than the MP5, it has a higher rate of fire, and it's just as(or moreso) accurate than the MP5, and much more accurate than the AK47. It effectively offers an advantage in a gunfight over the MP5 any time (if we don't factor the skill of the operator).

[Freezak]

You've put a real-life difference, while here, on semi-serious community, range and bullet size doesn't matter, and for the sake of balance of government forces, which in my opinion is significant right now, police should stay away from M4s. Also, you said that M4 is an agile weapon. It might be, but not as agile as MP5 is. It weights around 7.5 lb, same goes for the AK-47, which is almost same in terms of weight. That was one of the reasons why AK was made in an AKS, AKS-74 variant. Anyways we are going too far into things that matters only in real-life, looking just on the server, i see no reasons to allow police force M4s.

[Image: AK47_M4.jpg]
The AK47 is a very bulky weapon when you place it next to a M4A1 carbine, and since these two weapons are the only ones on the server, the argument about variations is null and void.
It's insignificant because average joe can get his hands on a better rifle by walking down the street and spending some money which is the easiest thing in Fearless to obtain. I thought we were talking about the MP5 and the M4 here, not the AK47(most of the time you can't even switch parts out because they're stamped weapons.). And can you see any reasons other than previously stated (like how you think the MP5 works just fine, or that you see no reason why it SHOULD be implemented.) why it shouldn't be implemented? Clearly stated, in one sentence, so that you can help me understand your reasoning? That's like saying we've gone on like this on the server for 2 years running, so you see no reason for car headlights to be added. The primary reason that I think the M4 should be added is that it does in fact give a damage boost to the officer using it and , it does more damage than the MP5, it has a higher rate of fire, and it's just as(or moreso) accurate than the MP5, and much more accurate than the AK47. It effectively offers an advantage in a gunfight over the MP5 any time (if we don't factor the skill of the operator).

I said not just once that i don't want it to get added in order to keep SRU and Police job balanced, because what difference will you see then between cops and sru agents, besides uniforms? Police got shotguns, mp5, weapons which SRU can't use, so SRU got weapons that Police can't use, everything is on its position.

[Eisenhorn]

Well this is a fair old debate.

Let's tackle the range claim on the m4a1 first, there is no way a carbine rifle has an effective range of 500m against point targets (people) maybe area targets, but that'd be covered under maximum range, the barrel is too short for a start but that's academic, it's more likely in the 200-300 range.

For those who don't know effective/maximum range is the difference between how far the bullet will go, and how effective it is, a bullet from an m16 can in theory travel 800m but it won't do much beyond 3-400 in terms of incapacitating a hostile.

Whilst the mp5 is arguably one of the worst weapons on server, so is the m4a1, they are similar enough in terms of damage to make it pretty negligible, and we need to consider the difference in rate of fire and accuracy stats, not to forget range to make a 100% true judgement on the weapon.

In terms of the roleplay aspect, keeping the police without the m4 as far as I understand is to prevent Rambo like behaviour, and encourage teamwork, e.g setting up a cordon, and calling in backup, instead of making them feel like they can take on the terminator in an arm wrestling match.

I understand your point, but with effective team work, and good organisation the police can usually come out on top v most criminals (doom fort Galil clans excluded), and in most cases I've witnessed it comes down to the elements of Speed Surprise and Aggression, we have both been on two people raids v a group of 5 and come out on top using those tactics, hell even as cops using just the shotgun we both took out a group of corleones.

I see why it would make sense to add the m4 from a realism viewpoint, and i'm not one to cry abuse as a reason to deny it. But in the sense of encouraging RP, and teamwork I can't justify a + support on this.

Furthermore the mp5 is still used by multiple counter terrorist teams around the world, e.g SAS CRW, SEALS, admittedly GSG9 prefer the UMP now, but you get my point, there is a weapon for every situation, and one of the main reasons to pick a pistol calibre SMG is that of over penetration in a hostage situation.

[Barkles]

instead of making them feel like they can take on the terminator in an arm wrestling match.

that is the best analogy I've ever heard xD

[DarkAngelx]

-Support

I think it's great the way it is, however As an SRU have two guns, the Police officers should as well, most US Officers Have a standard Pump Action Shotgun and/or MP5 with them in their cars. Maybe officers should get MP5's and USP's as standard with the job.

Thanks.

[Kulthro]

You've put a real-life difference, while here, on semi-serious community, range and bullet size doesn't matter, and for the sake of balance of government forces, which in my opinion is significant right now, police should stay away from M4s. Also, you said that M4 is an agile weapon. It might be, but not as agile as MP5 is. It weights around 7.5 lb, same goes for the AK-47, which is almost same in terms of weight. That was one of the reasons why AK was made in an AKS, AKS-74 variant. Anyways we are going too far into things that matters only in real-life, looking just on the server, i see no reasons to allow police force M4s.

[Image: AK47_M4.jpg]
The AK47 is a very bulky weapon when you place it next to a M4A1 carbine, and since these two weapons are the only ones on the server, the argument about variations is null and void.
It's insignificant because average joe can get his hands on a better rifle by walking down the street and spending some money which is the easiest thing in Fearless to obtain. I thought we were talking about the MP5 and the M4 here, not the AK47(most of the time you can't even switch parts out because they're stamped weapons.). And can you see any reasons other than previously stated (like how you think the MP5 works just fine, or that you see no reason why it SHOULD be implemented.) why it shouldn't be implemented? Clearly stated, in one sentence, so that you can help me understand your reasoning? That's like saying we've gone on like this on the server for 2 years running, so you see no reason for car headlights to be added. The primary reason that I think the M4 should be added is that it does in fact give a damage boost to the officer using it and , it does more damage than the MP5, it has a higher rate of fire, and it's just as(or moreso) accurate than the MP5, and much more accurate than the AK47. It effectively offers an advantage in a gunfight over the MP5 any time (if we don't factor the skill of the operator).

So what you're saying is, the police need an advantage over criminals. You're completely ignoring the fact that criminals usually don't roll in groups of 6, and police if they have back up can include up to 6. They don't need much of an advantage at all, considering they have the actual right to carry a weapon, making the criminal usually breaking fear RP if they even attempt to pull out a weapon to fight back against a policeman.

What i'm trying to say is, why should the police need an improvement if they can have 6 officers on the situation, and then if they're outmatched, call the SRU, which is a total of 4 Armed Soldiers, do your math that's 10, Citizens usually don't have groups of 10 people apart of one criminal organization.

An AK-47, holding 30 7.62x39mm bullets in one magazine, shooting at approximately 600 rounds a minute (fully automatic).
An Heckler & Koch MP5, holding 25-30 9x19mm Parabellum bullets in one magazine, shooting at approximately 800 rounds a minute (fully automatic).
AK-47 having a quicker reload time of approx 2.5 seconds in game..
MP-5 having a slower reload time of approx 3.0 seconds in game..
Would you look at that, an AK-47 is a bit stronger due to the reload time, and stronger bullets, but it has its weak points as the MP-5 does also.
It's not that great of a disadvantage to make a huge debate over.
As stated before: The SRU would be useless.. The MP-5 is already good enough.. If the police force acts as they're supposed to (trained and accurate) then they should get the job done, if not, they can gain help from other government officials (SRU).

[Deriptz]

I don't want the police to turn into SRU. I feel like the police should call for backup (SRU) instead of running in themselves in though situations.
Police can already equip shotguns, so I think they are good enough powerwise.
-Support

[Zambie]

+Support