Suggestion - Allow Police to use M4

[Ryder]

Why are you people trying to get this much reality in the game. I hear thousands saying ''Uuh police wears m4 all the time'', ''Mah uncle is cup and he weers m4''. This is FL, if you get cops to use M4A1's you will actually take 1 of the donator benefits.

As you will ruin the job 'SRU' totally. What is the point of being SRU if police will spawn with the same weapon?
Police may also patrol, I don't like to see 7 people walking around heavily armed on the streets 24/7.

I see absolutely NO point in doing this. ''Adds reality'', the fuck? If you want reality go play some HL2RP or something. It won't even add reality, as reality is for everyone different. If the cops in Netherland fire they will get a whole proces of 1 week. While in your country a cop can walk around in the city with a M4A1 in his hand.

-support.

[Toxic]

Why are you people trying to get this much reality in the game. I hear thousands saying ''Uuh police wears m4 all the time'', ''Mah uncle is cup and he weers m4''. This is FL, if you get cops to use M4A1's you will actually take 1 of the donator benefits.

As you will ruin the job 'SRU' totally. What is the point of being SRU if police will spawn with the same weapon?
Police may also patrol, I don't like to see 7 people walking around heavily armed on the streets 24/7.

I see absolutely NO point in doing this. ''Adds reality'', the ***? If you want reality go play some HL2RP or something. It won't even add reality, as reality is for everyone different. If the cops in Netherland fire they will get a whole proces of 1 week. While in your country a cop can walk around in the city with a M4A1 in his hand.

-support.

(it's called semi-serious, It's not lite, it's not dark, and it's not serious. If it were SERIOUS, you'd be in the jails until someone let you out, and no one would have a gun aside from cops, so feel lucky that you even have one. If it were LITE or DARK, well I could just call it a fuckfest waiting to happen, since there's no such ideals as FearRP or 5-15 minute arrests.)

Well aside from having a highly limited viewpoint about donation benefits, did you ever consider how much red tape the SRU is bound to? Regular police can patrol, SRU cannot. The police are often caught in fights that they are outmatched in, resulting their capture or, more often, death. Why would any good department in a city like EvoCity (where as we know, anyone and everyone is better equipped than a cop) leave its officers poorly equipped? Police are outmatched in any and all situations when it comes to firefights, the MP5 just doesn't cut it. And more than likely, they won't spawn with it. They will have to equip it just like any other SRU. I'd also like to point out that the SRU still have that unique trait of being able to use a sniper rifle. It's simply a statement that the government is a real threat to any criminal faction(I guess that applies to you, seeing the way you're going about your arguments.)



(thank you for fixing my post by the way enzyme)

[Freezak]

the MP5 just doesn't cut it.

Everyone has their own preferences, i consider MP5 as good enough weapon, outperformed people with M4 not just once, since it's not that good weapon aswell, if you say that MP5 is bad.

And more than likely, they won't spawn with it. They will have to equip it just like any other SRU.

No one from the other side of the law is spawning with guns aswell. They are equipping it later or sooner, Police Officer can do same thing but of course you're risking losing your weapon, while taking this risk into consideration, i'm for example always equipping a MP5 as officer, so that argument isn't really right, not to mention police officers have a free kevlar, usp and alot of ammo, while, for example rebels not. (I have seen enough situations when rebels were unarmed or poorly armed and cops had their free pistols + kevlar and other stuff, automatically outperforming them).

It's simply a statement that the government is a real threat to any criminal faction.

- 6 Police Officers + 1 Police Sergeant (all equipped with MP5 and free kevlar)
- 3 SRU Agents + 1 SRU Sergeant (let's say, all of them equipped with M4 and free kevlar)

Yes, they are serious threat to ANY criminal faction, considering a criminal faction has around 7 people, generally less participants in gunfights.

[Sub-Zero]

Alright, I agree with both sides here in some ways. How about instead of giving the police an M4 or keeping them with the MP5 (which is very poor) we replace or add the ability to equip the MP5 with something a little better, the UMP for example.

[Ryder]

Why are you people trying to get this much reality in the game. I hear thousands saying ''Uuh police wears m4 all the time'', ''Mah uncle is cup and he weers m4''. This is FL, if you get cops to use M4A1's you will actually take 1 of the donator benefits.

As you will ruin the job 'SRU' totally. What is the point of being SRU if police will spawn with the same weapon?
Police may also patrol, I don't like to see 7 people walking around heavily armed on the streets 24/7.

I see absolutely NO point in doing this. ''Adds reality'', the ***? If you want reality go play some HL2RP or something. It won't even add reality, as reality is for everyone different. If the cops in Netherland fire they will get a whole proces of 1 week. While in your country a cop can walk around in the city with a M4A1 in his hand.

-support.

(it's called semi-serious, It's not lite, it's not dark, and it's not serious. If it were SERIOUS, you'd be in the jails until someone let you out, and no one would have a gun aside from cops, so feel lucky that you even have one. If it were LITE or DARK, well I could just call it a fuckfest waiting to happen, since there's no such ideals as FearRP or 5-15 minute arrests.)

Did I say something about FL being serious, Lite, Dark or anything else, no? And yes I think you are talking to me, before you are even going to ask me.

Also may I ask why you made this big of a post. Are you trying to get attention? Or is it just your bad attitude.

Now to the suggestion again, you know there are server rules?
If a cop knows those rules he can easy RP and have fun.
FearRP, a cop can easily get a criminal by making him obey FearRP.

I think it is really not needed to add m4a1's in the cop their games.
-Police doesn't have a big hour restriction.
-Not looking forward to cops walking around town with M4a1's in their hand.
-The SRU job will be unneeded, there will be no backup calls anymore etc.
-Police can equip MP5, shotgun etc. I don't think it is just needed to add a M4A1 to their equipment, just because they want to kill more criminals.

[Freezak]

Alright, I agree with both sides here in some ways. How about instead of giving the police an M4 or keeping them with the MP5 (which is very poor) we replace or add the ability to equip the MP5 with something a little better, the UMP for example.

In my opinion current weapon system is alright.

[Toxic]

Why are you people trying to get this much reality in the game. I hear thousands saying ''Uuh police wears m4 all the time'', ''Mah uncle is cup and he weers m4''. This is FL, if you get cops to use M4A1's you will actually take 1 of the donator benefits.

As you will ruin the job 'SRU' totally. What is the point of being SRU if police will spawn with the same weapon?
Police may also patrol, I don't like to see 7 people walking around heavily armed on the streets 24/7.

I see absolutely NO point in doing this. ''Adds reality'', the ***? If you want reality go play some HL2RP or something. It won't even add reality, as reality is for everyone different. If the cops in Netherland fire they will get a whole proces of 1 week. While in your country a cop can walk around in the city with a M4A1 in his hand.

-support.

(it's called semi-serious, It's not lite, it's not dark, and it's not serious. If it were SERIOUS, you'd be in the jails until someone let you out, and no one would have a gun aside from cops, so feel lucky that you even have one. If it were LITE or DARK, well I could just call it a fuckfest waiting to happen, since there's no such ideals as FearRP or 5-15 minute arrests.)

Did I say something about FL being serious, Lite, Dark or anything else, no? And yes I think you are talking to me, before you are even going to ask me.

Also may I ask why you made this big of a post. Are you trying to get attention? Or is it just your bad attitude.

Now to the suggestion again, you know there are server rules?
If a cop knows those rules he can easy RP and have fun.
FearRP, a cop can easily get a criminal by making him obey FearRP.

I think it is really not needed to add m4a1's in the cop their games.
-Police doesn't have a big hour restriction.
-Not looking forward to cops walking around town with M4a1's in their hand.
-The SRU job will be unneeded, there will be no backup calls anymore etc.
-Police can equip MP5, shotgun etc. I don't think it is just needed to add a M4A1 to their equipment, just because they want to kill more criminals.

[/begin sarcasm]
no, I wasn't typing to you, I just quoted your text because it seemed like a good idea at the time.
[/end sarcasm]
Yes, I think it's a common link that can be made to say that I was referring to you as I typed my post up. It's also strange how you think: big post=rage/attention. Communicating a point which seems to have missed a target.

As any intelligent person would hopefully understand, I was trying to make an example because you mentioned serious roleplay (IE: HL2RP). I apologize if you had trouble following.
Do not patronize me about server rules. I've been a part of this community for 2 years.
Police officers are never equipped to be a match to a common criminal on FL. A MP5 in the game is not a contest when you see everyone else armed with an AK (highest damage in the gamemode) or a galil (second highest + high rate of fire). I'd say that criminals are still unmatched by the government.

http://www.fearlessrp.net/showthread.php...pon+Damage

"-Police doesn't have a big hour restriction."
And? SRU have even less of a requirement for hours, and anyone who donates money is able to use the class (able to use sniper rifles and comes standard with a UMP).
"-Not looking forward to cops walking around town with M4a1's in their hand."
I'm sure you aren't, but that's why the rifles stay in the trunk or in the seat holster until they're needed.
"-The SRU job will be unneeded, there will be no backup calls anymore etc."
Says who? Only the SRU can use sniper rifles, and when it comes to backup, there's no such thing as too much.
"-Police can equip MP5, shotgun etc. I don't think it is just needed to add a M4A1 to their equipment, just because they want to kill more criminals."
I think 'evening out the playing field' is a better description. I prefer arresting criminals but I can't exactly perform my job without injury when I've got a nine millimeter to the bad guy where they have a rifle with a round chambered that can shred my soft vest like paper.

---

the MP5 just doesn't cut it.

Everyone has their own preferences, i consider MP5 as good enough weapon, outperformed people with M4 not just once, since it's not that good weapon aswell, if you say that MP5 is bad.

I think that you should also factor ingame variables, server lag, clientside lag, the skill of either shooter, and then the damage of the weapons factor in. Sure, I can kill someone with a MP5, it's just a pain in the ass to do. And you base your argument off of the fact that it can be done, not much else? "We have this, it works a moderate percent of the time, you shouldn't need anything else."

And more than likely, they won't spawn with it. They will have to equip it just like any other SRU.

No one from the other side of the law is spawning with guns aswell. They are equipping it later or sooner, Police Officer can do same thing but of course you're risking losing your weapon, while taking this risk into consideration, i'm for example always equipping a MP5 as officer, so that argument isn't really right, not to mention police officers have a free kevlar, usp and alot of ammo, while, for example rebels not. (I have seen enough situations when rebels were unarmed or poorly armed and cops had their free pistols + kevlar and other stuff, automatically outperforming them).

A USP really doens't matter in the end, when you have to include that you must use your own ammo to get an MP5 on your person. It uses the exact same ammo as a M4 in the game. (why? I've got no idea. Since it hasn't been changed it's a legitimate argument.)
Yeah, cops have their free gun, against "situations when rebels were unarmed or poorly armed", but what about fighting someone who knows their way around a weapon moreso than you do, and has a budget for a better one? You're essentially screwed. That being said, one might consider that the M4 would be a waste seeing as it really only does partially better than a MP5. But I can safely say the officer in question knows the risk when he equips his own weapon, so why, in that way, should it be limited?

It's simply a statement that the government is a real threat to any criminal faction.

- 6 Police Officers + 1 Police Sergeant (all equipped with MP5 and free kevlar)
- 3 SRU Agents + 1 SRU Sergeant (let's say, all of them equipped with M4 and free kevlar)

Yes, they are serious threat to ANY criminal faction, considering a criminal faction has around 7 people, generally less participants in gunfights.


There are of course, that group of people who enjoy roleplaying but don't want to or can't be bothered to donate to the server for the donor benefits? What if they don't have the ability to join the SRU or don't want to, and what if there is a bunch of SRU that really have a small ability at best to perform their duties. Even better, what if there's just a team of police officers, and no SRU? Are you saying that all is balanced regardless? You make that argument based on the assumption that both parts of the government will be full of adequate shooters, even nowadays when the population is not even close to being 50/50 sometimes. I prefer playing as a regular police officer because it has approximately 1/3 the red tape that the SRU has. They're more versatile, can deploy quicker to a situation (because, you know, they can patrol)and are able to contain a situation by themselves if they're well organized. There simply comes the time when the police are outgunned and outranged because all they can equip are submachine guns (the flaw in range) and the M3 shotgun (10 yards fatal, any further they're cotton candy.) I feel like criminals should act wary even if there isn't a team of somewhat organized SRU on the server.

---

I'll go ahead and say it. The MP5 sucks ass, and the shells from a shotgun ingame turn to cotton candy at the ranges a rifle should be used in. I'm also going to point out another in-server issue that an organized and effective team of SRU officers aren't always on standby, leaving the regulars to fend for themselves.. and I could say it again, every squad car in my town has an AR and a shotgun in it, though I'd say that trend started with park rangers.

Very nice, but most of the cops from other countries don't, it doesn't matter that every squad car in your town has an AR. To keep it realistic and make actually some difference between police force and SRU, they shouldn't have access to it on FL. Evocity is not USA, i think police force should look like regular force looks like and do their BASIC job. For more dangerous situations, SRU should be called. It's alright how it looks like right now, nothing needs to be changed, they got already a shotgun, enough. By the way, for me the MP5 in-game is pretty nice, at least for me, IRL it's standard-issue weapon for many police forces in european countries and not only, police in my country is using AKMS, doesn't mean police here must get access to AK.

No, I don't think I mentioned that the AR is localized to where I lived, despite the fact that I've posted at least six other examples of local, county, or state police with their ARs poised. I'll find a US Park Ranger(Federal Government) holding one if it makes you any happier.
And let's not forget that multiple significant individuals, on previous posts, on a number of occasions, have referred to EvoCity as a "contingent of the United States." I could find a quote for you if you wish.
And where do you make the connection automatically that EvoCity is in Europe? The last Bank of America building I've seen in another country was a skyscraper, not a small city branch.
And at the end of your statement you make an analogy that since you won't get the rifle that the police in your country have, that the police here (based off of a US police officer's uniform /etcetc) won't be more heavily armed. I'm assuming that the crime in your country or the people who own automatic rifles aren't as plentiful as found in FL:RP's EvoCity.

[Freezak]

And where do you make the connection automatically that EvoCity is in Europe?

Never made such connection. I consider Evocity as neutral in this case.

I'll find a US Park Ranger(Federal Government) holding one if it makes you any happier.

Sure, you can find 10 more US government members with this weapon, it's still american, not my exact argument against this suggestion though.

And at the end of your statement you make an analogy that since you won't get the rifle that the police in your country have, that the police here (based off of a US police officer's uniform /etcetc) won't be more heavily armed. I'm assuming that the crime in your country or the people who own automatic rifles aren't as plentiful as found in FL:RP's EvoCity.

I said that since your only argument for M4 in Evocity was the fact that police in your country is using it. Police should be based on majority of police in different COUNTRIES, not just one + i can't see any benefits of giving access of M4 for Evocity Police. That's my opinion which i stated days ago and i'm not going to change it.

I think that you should also factor ingame variables, server lag, clientside lag, the skill of either shooter, and then the damage of the weapons factor in. Sure, I can kill someone with a MP5, it's just a pain in the ass to do. And you base your argument off of the fact that it can be done, not much else? "We have this, it works a moderate percent of the time, you shouldn't need anything else."

No, i don't i should take serverlag, clientside lag or anything else into consideration. I base my argument off of the fact that it's good enough weapon for everyone kill effectively, vs. M4 aswell. You consider it as a weak weapon and that remains as your opinion, not a fact. And in my opinion MP5 is a good weapon in-game that can easily compete with M4.

A USP really doens't matter in the end, when you have to include that you must use your own ammo to get an MP5 on your person. It uses the exact same ammo as a M4 in the game. (why? I've got no idea. Since it hasn't been changed it's a legitimate argument.)
Yeah, cops have their free gun, against "situations when rebels were unarmed or poorly armed", but what about fighting someone who knows their way around a weapon moreso than you do, and has a budget for a better one? You're essentially screwed. That being said, one might consider that the M4 would be a waste seeing as it really only does partially better than a MP5. But I can safely say the officer in question knows the risk when he equips his own weapon, so why, in that way, should it be limited?

Why it should be limited? because SRU wouldn't make any sense anymore since cops will be exactly same, and probably most of them will start walking with M4, can't really see a big benefit in that.

but what about fighting someone who knows their way around a weapon moreso than you do, and has a budget for a better one?

Then you will fight with your MP5 against, let's say M4. Chances are same besides the skill. Both of these weapons are doing pretty well and that's my opinion which i'm not going to change, never had any problems with MP5, which can infact compete with, maybe not AK, but M4 for sure.

There are of course, that group of people who enjoy roleplaying but don't want to or can't be bothered to donate to the server for the donor benefits? What if they don't have the ability to join the SRU or don't want to, and what if there is a bunch of SRU that really have a small ability at best to perform their duties. Even better, what if there's just a team of police officers, and no SRU? Are you saying that all is balanced regardless? You make that argument based on the assumption that both parts of the government will be full of adequate shooters, even nowadays when the population is not even close to being 50/50 sometimes. I prefer playing as a regular police officer because it has approximately 1/3 the red tape that the SRU has. They're more versatile, can deploy quicker to a situation (because, you know, they can patrol)and are able to contain a situation by themselves if they're well organized. There simply comes the time when the police are outgunned and outranged because all they can equip are submachine guns (the flaw in range) and the M3 shotgun (10 yards fatal, any further they're cotton candy.) I feel like criminals should act wary even if there isn't a team of somewhat organized SRU on the server.

Even better, what if there's just a team of police officers, and no SRU?

What if there's no criminal groups? cops don't need M4. Anyways most of the times SRU & Police is full so i don't think the population is not even close to being 50/50.

I prefer playing as a regular police officer because it has approximately 1/3 the red tape that the SRU has.

Nobody is forcing you to become a SRU Agent, play as officer and do your basic duties instead of caring about your weapon limit (MP5 for medium range and M3 for short range, both performing really well on these)

There simply comes the time when the police are outgunned and outranged because all they can equip are submachine guns

Not outgunned and not outranged, SRU-like team is always on stand-by in real life, you call it if you need it, not even going to say that there are always at least 2 people in SRU Team, if not 4.

I feel like criminals should act wary even if there isn't a team of somewhat organized SRU on the server.

Exactly they should, considering they not always own expensive weapons, sometimes they use pistols or submachine guns, even if not, using common sense they should always act wary since they are risking losing their lives.

[Toxic]

So essentially you're saying that since you haven't had any trouble with the MP5, that there shouldn't be anything else implemented?

"Nobody is forcing you to become a SRU Agent, play as officer and do your basic duties instead of caring about your weapon limit (MP5 for medium range and M3 for short range, both performing really well on these)"

And your argument here is...? I said that many server-goers like me prefer playing as regular officers because we don't have to be cooped up in the nexus 100% of the time give or take high risk warrants.


"No, i don't i should take serverlag, clientside lag or anything else into consideration. I base my argument off of the fact that it's good enough weapon for everyone kill effectively, vs. M4 aswell. You consider it as a weak weapon and that remains as your opinion, not a fact. And in my opinion MP5 is a good weapon in-game that can easily compete with M4."

But it is a weak weapon, sir. A fact proven by testing.

MP5
Type: Fully-Automatic Submachine Gun
Head:50 damage
Chest: 12 damage
Without Kevlar to kill: 2 shots to head, 9 shots to chest
With Kevlar to kill: 4 shots to head, 17 shots to chest
AK-47
Type: Fully-Automatic Rifle
Head: 98 damage
Chest: 25 damage
Without Kevlar to kill: 2 shots to head, 4 shots to chest
With Kevlar to kill: 3 shots to head, 8 shots to chest

Galil
Type: Fully Automatic Rifle
Head: 75 damage
Chest: 18 damage
Without Kevlar to kill: 2 shots to head, 6 shots to chest
With Kevlar to kill: 3 shots to head, 12 shots to chest


M4A1
Type: Fully Automatic Rifle w/ Silencer
Head: 60 damage [45 silenced]
Chest: 15 damage [10 silenced]
Without Kevlar to kill: 2 shots to head [3 shots silenced], 7 shots to chest [10 sile.]
With Kevlar to kill: 4 shots to head [5 silenced], 14 shots to chest [20 silenced]

There are a multitude of occasions where there are no SRU with a full team of police officers, make no mistake.

"Then you will fight with your MP5 against, let's say M4. Chances are same besides the skill. Both of these weapons are doing pretty well and that's my opinion which i'm not going to change, never had any problems with MP5, which can infact compete with, maybe not AK, but M4 for sure."

I rest my case about your "deal with it" complex. M4, higher rate of fire, more damage. I don't see why you're so against an officer being able to equip it? They know the risk every time they equip something that packs any more of a punch than their USP. What if I'm of the same match as the shooter I'm up against? Then what? My submachine gun against his rifle. I think we know who wins that one.

"What if there's no criminal groups? cops don't need M4. Anyways most of the times SRU & Police is full so i don't think the population is not even close to being 50/50."

There's always criminal groups? Because it's about (as an estimate) five times easier to make money with the use of illegal means. I can say it again, when cops have the ability use the M4, there will come times when they WILL need it, and there will be times that they WON'T need it. That's why the ability to equip them out of your own inventory is implemented, right? You'll need to clarify that last bit. I meant fifty out of fifty players on the server, not a balance (because as we know, that doesn't exist between the government and criminal factions. 11 cops, 12 maximum for criminal gangs. They wouldn't even have to work together[though a rule infraction nonetheless] to split up the government. Let's also include that group of citizens that you'll find on the server with a custom job that implies malicious activities as well. Might be 50/50 if the cops know what they're doing, but off of that argument because we know it's invalid.)

I'm more into the idea of having the use of the M4 as an addition to the police force, instead of merely exchanging it with the MP5. I'm not opinionated of where the latter ends up.

[Freezak]

So essentially you're saying that since you haven't had any trouble with the MP5, that there shouldn't be anything else implemented?

Yes, i think that MP5 is almost exact weapon as M4, therefore it shouldn't be implemented.

But it is a weak weapon, sir. A fact proven by testing.

MP5
Type: Fully-Automatic Submachine Gun
Head:50 damage
Chest: 12 damage
Without Kevlar to kill: 2 shots to head, 9 shots to chest
With Kevlar to kill: 4 shots to head, 17 shots to chest
M4A1
Type: Fully Automatic Rifle w/ Silencer
Head: 60 damage [45 silenced]
Chest: 15 damage [10 silenced]
Without Kevlar to kill: 2 shots to head [3 shots silenced], 7 shots to chest [10 sile.]
With Kevlar to kill: 4 shots to head [5 silenced], 14 shots to chest [20 silenced]

Test that proved that both weapons above are weak and there is almost no difference.

I rest my case about your "deal with it" complex. M4, higher rate of fire, more damage. I don't see why you're so against an officer being able to equip it? They know the risk every time they equip something that packs any more of a punch than their USP. What if I'm of the same match as the shooter I'm up against? Then what? My submachine gun against his rifle. I think we know who wins that one.

I think we don't. It's all about your skills, since i feel both of these weapons deal almost same damage, it's only up to that.

There's always criminal groups? Because it's about (as an estimate) five times easier to make money with the use of illegal means. I can say it again, when cops have the ability use the M4, there will come times when they WILL need it, and there will be times that they WON'T need it. That's why the ability to equip them out of your own inventory is implemented, right? You'll need to clarify that last bit. I meant fifty out of fifty players on the server, not a balance (because as we know, that doesn't exist between the government and criminal factions. 11 cops, 12 maximum for criminal gangs. They wouldn't even have to work together[though a rule infraction nonetheless] to split up the government. Let's also include that group of citizens that you'll find on the server with a custom job that implies malicious activities as well. Might be 50/50 if the cops know what they're doing, but off of that argument because we know it's invalid.)

Yes, you might have alot of criminal groups, but most of the times you will face with one, each time. Still i think that MP5 is enough, considering the SRU team can equip M4, and that's the main difference between police and sru force, which should stay as DIFFERENCE.

I'm more into the idea of having the use of the M4 as an addition to the police force, instead of merely exchanging it with the MP5. I'm not opinionated of where the latter ends up.

And i'm more into the idea of leaving the weapon system as it is right now.