Unperma Request

[Killjoy]

Why exactly would I want to stay gone?

And what exactly is the trouble you speak of?

Please re-read my previous posts.

[Faustie]

While there are almost certainly wrongs and rights on both sides, both BlackDog's and various admin's, including probably me at some point, I think this has been poorly handled. I think a lot of the admins involved here aren't thinking objectively, instead they're using this as a front for a personal vendetta, which has to stop. This needs to be handled fairly and objectively. I've watched this case and put in a word or two and spoken to the major players over the course of this, which is pretty much well over a month now (which is ridiculous). With the exception of my conversations with Killjoy, everyone is being incredibly biased. As such, admins are not to take any administrative action on this case anymore. I still welcome your opinions and views, but no closing, no banning, not even teensy weensy forum bans, the drama from this is bloody awful. Once this case has been properly reviewed, the SA team + owners will take care of it.

Let's run through a few points.. Yes, BlackDog broke a rule using his magnetized bases. On the other hand, the majority of them were for passive RP, and several times in the past many admins didn't complain, and are now being hypocritical. I must admit the fact that it was breaking a rule escaped my mind the many times I saw them on server, mainly because they were well built and for passive RP, mainly. The problem escalated when the FUMUKU HAPC was started to be used in regular raids, which happened a few times. It was always a pretty controversial build, I mean it's a flying tank, at least my chopper obeys the laws of physics, but if it was reserved solely for combine'ish RP events I would've been fine with it. As it is when I saw it used in regular raids, I knew that had to stop.

It's also true that admins had to supply some of the magnetized props at certain times. I have a vague idea of who these admins may be, but a few of them are certainly being hypocrites now. Enough with that, I'm tired of the bias from these grudges. If you can't speak objectively I don't want to hear your opinion.

It seems BlackDog was originally banned after he and a few other members of the community used a quote from Ruxandra in his forum signature. The ban was permanent, and I agreed with BD that the punishment was far too harsh, a warning should've been used instead and a ban only issued if they refused to remove it. After a while, Rux did remove the bans, but expected an apology. Most of the people did apologize after I spoke to them, but BD refused to - Some admins thought this was too cocky, some thought it ok. I'm on the fence about this, after the very unfair ban he has a right to voice his opinion, I don't want censorship, I want my admins to know what is not ok. I'll take this opportunity to remind my team, YOU ARE NOT GODS, AND YOU ARE ACCOUNTABLE. So am I. Hell, so is Soul in a way.

Shortly after this Ruxandra and a couple of other admins, I assume, did some digging in the FUMUKU thread, and found what appeared to be a fairly valid reason for the clans closure. FUMUKU was then swiftly closed - In all likelihood it will probably stay so until further notice, it was becoming a bit of a problem and much more investigation is required, I can't really remember those events. However, what was not ok was how this was handled - Instantly after Ruxandra and a few admins were annoyed at BD's behavior, they went digging and found something in spite to get revenge on him. This isn't objective at all, and they will be held accountable. So will the other admins who later banned BD multiple times, it isn't acceptable.

Too many of the actions taken against BlackDog were done in bias, and far too little detailed discussion was done regarding the events. Most of it seemed to take place on one-on-one steam chats, which I only know small parts of. All the people involved against him either remember only the mistakes he made and problems he may of caused, or only the good admin work and RP he brought to the community. No-one seems to be taking both in mind at once. This needs to change. No more bias from admins or players.

So, what do I think? Yes, BD broke a few rules, perhaps FUMUKU had gone too far, but this kind of treatment is unacceptable - Multiple permabans and a clan closure only in spite are way, way out of line, and not in line with the standards I expect from this community. So, we will now review this properly, starting now.

[Sergeno]

User has been warned for this post. Reason:

Posting in a thread without the sufficient right (+1 points)

[jammi]

If it's worth anything. I've only seen the magnetized props used for Passive RP, but also, the magnetized props aren't ONLY from when BD was an admin, as I have witnessed admins magnetizing the props for Blackdog's RPs.

[BlackDog]

If it's worth anything. I've only seen the magnetized props used for Passive RP, but also, the magnetized props aren't ONLY from when BD was an admin, as I have witnessed admins magnetizing the props for Blackdog's RPs.

Point of order, i got all my mag props after i was demoted

[Noobias]

User has been warned for this post. Reason:

I'm pretty sure every other permanently banned player would love to get back in and they'd definitely have (what they call) fun.

Well you guys just keep going on about how bad it is here and how much better it's there, so why won't you just stay gone and save us the trouble?

We didn't have a problem with it in the beginning because you didn't make into one. Now, your friends have become known troublemakers on FL and turned to spreading dirt about us and our community. Mysteriously, they've also grown interest in the same community you've been affiliated with. But you didn't do any advertising or recruiting, right? That would be wrong and bannable.

Why don't you step off, Killjoy?
Blackdog wants to return, and his reasoning for that is his opinion and only his. He doesn't need to share it with you or the other team ersmemb. The fact is, he made a case and is being tormented because of his reasoning?. Unless you have proof of that recruiting and advertising, you can just drop that little accusation as it stands, because your constant mentioning of things that BlackDog apparantly did really aren't contributing to anything.

He made a fair case and it should be treated as any other, regardless of your personal opinion on him. You are making decisions based on your opinion of him, which is ridiculous honestly. Do you think he did what he did with malicious intent? You call him bad, yet he was a member of your admin team for a period of time.

Of course, it's his word against Ruxandras, and despite him being a former admin, its Ruxandras word that wins out, regardless of anything that BlackDog says, especially because he is the only one that provided sufficient evidence. So the fact that he is now a player without admin rights makes this a felony of some sort? He didn't use his tools for bad then, and hasn't now. You can't prove that he "knowingly disobeyed the rules" and such, because you don't know if he has.

Just let him go, good god.
I am not a best friend of BlackDog, infact, I hardly know him.
I have no prior connections with him, I just cannot sit here and watch the corruptness of this case continue, it is absolutely ridiculous.

[wweee2345]

User has been warned for this post. Reason:

My past with Blackdog is not all too well the greatest and there are reasons for this, but I'd like to look at this from a observers perspective. I always like to put some input on these kinds of things.

Now as Faustie stated, I wish to look at this objectively in my otherwise biased since of mind. Blackdog, as many other admins, used the tools at hand whether to advantage or to promote passive RP. Blackdog has wished to stated that his use of tools were to promote passive RP among the players of FL. This first off is a clear mistake on the admin part, I can understand the higher prop limit with the becoming of an admin, but it is clearly on fault that these tools were not originally blocked for the admins as well. Nonetheless Blackdog still broke the rule of tool abuse, which he ought have known. The idea that, "Other admins have committed." is an utter place of blame on others, which is completely faulted. It's similar to me saying, "Well that guy propkilled some guy, so that means I can do that too."; simply just a childish misconception. You all well know as well as other admins, that when discovered committing abuse whether it be major or something minor like tool abuse, there are later consequences. Fortunately no punishment for the said accusation was not given to you at the time as an admin. Now your clear mistake was abuse of the Advance Dupe system, you continued to use the magnetized bases (Which I believe are also molotov proof) after your time as admin was over. You were making a clear attempt to use items and tools that other players were barred from using to your advantage. This being said all use of said tools should then be banned to prevent further seizure of admins tool after the admins time of serving is up. In the end, the ones that continued to abuse it have been banned. You being one of the bigger ones. I would understand if it was the use of a magnetized dupe once or maybe twice, but you continually used these to your advantage; MULTIPLE times that is. The consequences were of admin choice and therefore determined by her. You knew the rules and you are there to follow them as every other player must; you aren't exempted for being an ex-admin, but actually put under a higher standard, one which you have failed to live up to. Under the said circumstances, I would support Ruxandra on this one.

As Killjoy has mentioned,
Pay attention to your signature for a moment.

Ive been perma for:"Working against the unity and stability of the admin team" for having "intentions opposite the community" and that I "shouldn't be a part of FL anymore" How nice...

Clearly this was something unneeded and a grasp at public outcry in my view. This should have all been dealt with privately, but you as not only a member, but a once respected ex-admin, decided to plague the forums with this sense of humility. Someone as respected as you and considered loyal, would clearly understand the circumstances that led to your ban and taken them on willingly. This again taken as immature letting down yourself more than anyone.

The downturn first began when FUMUKU changed from a passive RP clan to a more aggressive clan. This included and was not limited to aggressive contracts/strong-arming with the government, raiding players for contraband just for the hell of it, and using the said tools to our advantage in these raids. You stopped doing the normal passive RP events that you had done before. From my experience on the server with your RP, this 'passive RP' was quite limited to a group rather than the whole server as claimed. The only exception was the FUMUKU monorail, but then even was made by abusing tools that you swore to not use as an admin (This did kill a considerable amount of players in its beginning stages and also led to server crashes at some points). The said RP may have promoted passiveness, but thereafter ruined others passive RP by crashing the server.

I want to go off on a tangent of what Faustie stated:

It seems BlackDog was originally banned after he and a few other members of the community used a quote from Ruxandra in his forum signature. The ban was permanent, and I agreed with BD that the punishment was far too harsh, a warning should've been used instead and a ban only issued if they refused to remove it. After a while, Rux did remove the bans, but expected an apology. Most of the people did apologize after I spoke to them, but BD refused to - Some admins thought this was too cocky, some thought it ok. I'm on the fence about this, after the very unfair ban he has a right to voice his opinion, I don't want censorship, I want my admins to know what is not ok. I'll take this opportunity to remind my team, YOU ARE NOT GODS, AND YOU ARE ACCOUNTABLE. So am I. Hell, so is Soul in a way.

Admins are not vulnerable to the rules as they seem to be, this being seen in recent activities from several admins. He knowingly bashed both players and admins, as well. My point is this being is that Blackdog had become completely over-confident about his said status and this being verified by conversations we have had both in the server and on the forums. Blackdog all well knew his actions and as once an admin is expected to follow that higher standard and not expected to be hypocritical about it either. Being said, further action was thus taken for that. This should have been discussed and approved by other admins, as other players have to do with similar situations. This was not done and the consequences have come down on him.

My suggestion is you get rid of the witnesses to the said events, this is only going to lead to further bias and bending of the truth. Maybe not a permanent ban, but a severe ban for the amount of actions that he has committed, not only hurting passive RP, but tarnishing the communities identity of professionalism especially in their admins.

So, what do I think? Yes, BD broke a few rules, perhaps FUMUKU had gone too far, but this kind of treatment is unacceptable - Multiple permabans and a clan closure only in spite are way, way out of line, and not in line with the standards I expect from this community. So, we will now review this properly, starting now.

This being said, I believe there were only two permanent bans: One issued via Console and another by Ruxandra. These were not out of spite, but out of recent recurring actions that have been committed; standards that have been lowered due to events such as these. The idea, if any sense of unbanning, should still be long enough to get the point across that rules are rules (1-3 Months would be plenty long enough to forgive and forget on both sides), and a long blacklist of PTE (Due to the confirmed accusations) along with a probational period to see if this is truly how he claims as a passive role-player.

[Noobias]

User has been warned for this post. Reason:

I'm pretty sure every other permanently banned player would love to get back in and they'd definitely have (what they call) fun.

Well you guys just keep going on about how bad it is here and how much better it's there, so why won't you just stay gone and save us the trouble?

We didn't have a problem with it in the beginning because you didn't make into one. Now, your friends have become known troublemakers on FL and turned to spreading dirt about us and our community. Mysteriously, they've also grown interest in the same community you've been affiliated with. But you didn't do any advertising or recruiting, right? That would be wrong and bannable.

Why don't you step off, Killjoy?
Blackdog wants to return, and his reasoning for that is his opinion and only his. He doesn't need to share it with you or the other team ersmemb. The fact is, he made a case and is being tormented because of his reasoning?. Unless you have proof of that recruiting and advertising, you can just drop that little accusation as it stands, because your constant mentioning of things that BlackDog apparantly did really aren't contributing to anything.

He made a fair case and it should be treated as any other, regardless of your personal opinion on him. You are making decisions based on your opinion of him, which is ridiculous honestly. Do you think he did what he did with malicious intent? You call him bad, yet he was a member of your admin team for a period of time.

Of course, it's his word against Ruxandras, and despite him being a former admin, its Ruxandras word that wins out, regardless of anything that BlackDog says, especially because he is the only one that provided sufficient evidence. So the fact that he is now a player without admin rights makes this a felony of some sort? He didn't use his tools for bad then, and hasn't now. You can't prove that he "knowingly disobeyed the rules" and such, because you don't know if he has.

Just let him go, good god.
I am not a best friend of BlackDog, infact, I hardly know him.
I have no prior connections with him, I just cannot sit here and watch the corruptness of this case continue, it is absolutely ridiculous.

Thank god Faustie came in here, one of the wisest admins on the team.

Also, Rux, leave me alone. I don't need you coming in here, removing the only amount of sense from this thread.
I am not posting to be a dick, I am posting because the truth is being covered by the admins accounts of what happened, which is apparently more than enough these days.

[BlackDog]

wwee, why exactly are you posting here? I dont recall mentioning you in my post nor do i recall you ever attending my RP events?

So what right to you have to come in here spouting off the same crap you always do when it involes me or to even begin suggesting punishments here?

Edit: I find it odd how noobias's post is gone, when he had attended my events, and knows what hes talking about, yet wwee's is strangely still here

[Ruxandra]

wweee2345 - Don't post here if you are not related to the case. Warned.