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04-04-2013, 07:35 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2022, 01:02 AM by Fearless Community.
Edit Reason: Checked Encoding
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All for it, in fact, I've always viewed it as ridiculous that we're still arguing over such petty things like marriage equality in the 21st century.
I can't be bothered going through a 7 page thread replying to multiple posts, so I'll just post some common arguments and why(in my opinion) they make no logical sense.
While yes, there are many good lessons many people will draw from that in order to help them live a good life while being kind to others, there are many quite horrible lessons to be found in it, if we're going to base modern law off of what the bible says, why is slavery forbidden, and why are people not being stoned to death in public for working on the Sabbath? To say something is wrong because it is in the bible is just an excuse, you're not being influenced by what is in the bible, you're merely using it as a justification to stop things you dislike with no other reason.
Now as for it being God's law or whatever, while I do not believe in any form of deity myself, I'd imagine he'd be quite offended if you were to just assume what he believed. Many people say this based off the bible, and we have to remember that this is purely a compilation of what people have written, it is not something the big man wrote himself and handed down, all the books have people's names for a reason, and not one person follows that to the word, which is near impossible given the amount of contradictions and vagueness of much of it. In reality, you have no reason to say this other than what other people have said, and you have no ability to tell what he intends other than what he has created. In reality(I'll get to this later), homosexuality is natural, your belief is that he created everything in nature(we will get to the definition of nature and natural later), and this includes homosexuality, so the only reasonable conclusion is that he's in support of it.
The most important flaw in this argument however is simple, it basically says everyone has to live by your religious belief, and this should be enforced in law. Imagine being forced to live by someone else's religious view point, not nice, is it? Don't do it to others then, no one is forcing you to get a gay marriage, so don't get one.
Even if it was, and that every single scientific study showing otherwise is a hoax, and almost every single gay person who knows personally it was not a choice is just lying, so what? Are people not allowed to choose who they marry anymore?
Another view is that nature is anything outside of what humans have done, in which case, just look around you, we're currently communication across the world through a network of glass, copper, silicone, plastic and various other materials using electrical pulses. We can fly across the world in a few hours, go to the moon, dive depths under the sea to where we'd be crushed to death in an instant, split the atom, and being gay strikes you as unnatural, and therefore wrong?
Even regardless of your definition of nature, the simple fact is it's been observed in over 1500 species, ranging from us, to birds, to lizards, to other mammals, to insects to even parasitic worms. Please try and explain how something observed in so many species of animal could ever be considered unnatural.
In reality, if we go back far enough(when I say far enough, 100 years will probably do it), the sanctity of marriage was between 2 people of the same class, religion and race, and often arranged by parents.
Right it's late and I've run out of things to type for now. Enjoy my wall of rambling text.
I can't be bothered going through a 7 page thread replying to multiple posts, so I'll just post some common arguments and why(in my opinion) they make no logical sense.
Quote:The bible says so/it's gods law/any other argument that has a strong basis in christianity's view of it(or any religion in a broader sense)The bible says many things, for example, eating pork, working on the Sabbath day, mixing of fabrics, mixing of different seeds, shaving and haircuts, having any form of contact with a woman while she's on her period(including whatever she touches), masturbation, any form of birth control(including pulling out), tattoos, eating shellfish, or divorce, are all forbidden; Meanwhile many things such as rape, murder, slavery, incest, polygamy, sacrifices, sexism and genocide are fully allowed.
While yes, there are many good lessons many people will draw from that in order to help them live a good life while being kind to others, there are many quite horrible lessons to be found in it, if we're going to base modern law off of what the bible says, why is slavery forbidden, and why are people not being stoned to death in public for working on the Sabbath? To say something is wrong because it is in the bible is just an excuse, you're not being influenced by what is in the bible, you're merely using it as a justification to stop things you dislike with no other reason.
Now as for it being God's law or whatever, while I do not believe in any form of deity myself, I'd imagine he'd be quite offended if you were to just assume what he believed. Many people say this based off the bible, and we have to remember that this is purely a compilation of what people have written, it is not something the big man wrote himself and handed down, all the books have people's names for a reason, and not one person follows that to the word, which is near impossible given the amount of contradictions and vagueness of much of it. In reality, you have no reason to say this other than what other people have said, and you have no ability to tell what he intends other than what he has created. In reality(I'll get to this later), homosexuality is natural, your belief is that he created everything in nature(we will get to the definition of nature and natural later), and this includes homosexuality, so the only reasonable conclusion is that he's in support of it.
The most important flaw in this argument however is simple, it basically says everyone has to live by your religious belief, and this should be enforced in law. Imagine being forced to live by someone else's religious view point, not nice, is it? Don't do it to others then, no one is forcing you to get a gay marriage, so don't get one.
Quote:Gays can't have kids!Ignoring methods such as artificial insemination, adoption etc, yes, so they shouldn't be able to get married purely on this basis? What about the elderly? Or infertile couples? Are they not allowed to get married since they can't have kids? And are you saying the exclusive 100% purpose of marriage is for reproduction, and that love, sexual attraction, social obligation etc are entirely irrelevant to whether or not people should or should not be married?
Quote:Think of the children! They need a mother and a father!Numerous peer reviewed studies have gone into the effects of same sex couples raising children, and all of them have shown absolutely no difference between those raised in same sex marriages versus those raised in opposite sex marriages. Now are you telling me that two average gay people would be worse parents than say Jill the heroin addicted stripper, who works 15 hours a day and has no partner, or Susan, the 16 year old girl forced to drop out of school to raise her accident of a child her parents have told her she has to raise? Or how about Frank, who believes a belt is the best way to raise a child? Or the orphanage?
Quote:Homosexuality is a choiceNo it is not, numerous scientific studies have not only shown that it is not a choice, and have even found the causes behind it. Even just ask any gay person. Do you honestly think people just wake up one day and think "I'm bored, so I'm going to become gay!".
Even if it was, and that every single scientific study showing otherwise is a hoax, and almost every single gay person who knows personally it was not a choice is just lying, so what? Are people not allowed to choose who they marry anymore?
Quote:Homosexuality is unnaturalThat word holds almost no meaning, especially when used to argue the morality behind something. There are 2 ways to look at it really, either nature is every single thing in the observable universe, as everything we have not done occurred purely on it's own, and everything we have done is a result of our intellect, which is a result of natural evolution(or creation if you believe in that).
Another view is that nature is anything outside of what humans have done, in which case, just look around you, we're currently communication across the world through a network of glass, copper, silicone, plastic and various other materials using electrical pulses. We can fly across the world in a few hours, go to the moon, dive depths under the sea to where we'd be crushed to death in an instant, split the atom, and being gay strikes you as unnatural, and therefore wrong?
Even regardless of your definition of nature, the simple fact is it's been observed in over 1500 species, ranging from us, to birds, to lizards, to other mammals, to insects to even parasitic worms. Please try and explain how something observed in so many species of animal could ever be considered unnatural.
Quote:Marriage is sacred/it ruins the sanctity of marriage(/civil partnerships to a lesser extent)/traditional marriageIf you have a problem with with the sanctity of marriage being "ruined", start off with divorce, or premarital sex, or Las Vegas weddings, or Kim Kardashians 3 day for profit wedding. It's not that long since marriages between different race would have been considered "ruining the sanctity of marriage". And if it is so sacred, why do you require all the legal benefits such as additional rights, tax breaks etc? Surely the status alone should be enough? No? Civil partnership rights not enough for you?
In reality, if we go back far enough(when I say far enough, 100 years will probably do it), the sanctity of marriage was between 2 people of the same class, religion and race, and often arranged by parents.
Quote:1 man, 1 woman!That's not an argument to back up your stance, that is just restating your position on the matter.
Quote:1 man, 1 woman, just like the bible!Better, but the bible also allows marriage between 1 man, 1 wife and his concubines, 1 man and many wives, 1 man and his rape victim, 1 soldier and his prisoner of war, 1 man and his slave etc. Now please stop thinking the law should revolve around your exclusive religious belief.
Quote:If legalize gay marriage, it will mean everyone will start having gay sex and noone will ever have kids and the world will end!The people that are going to get gay marriages are already having gay sex, you seem to be under the impression that humans automatically swing towards being gay, and the legality of gay marriage is all that holds the world back from becoming a massive gay orgy. I think you've misunderstood how sexuality works, most people go one way, some people go the other, and some people go both ways, if you're thinking this is not the case, and that everyone's just secretly craving gay sex, the chances are it's because you are, and I have news for you buddy, you're gay, but not everyone else is. Plenty of societies have gotten on fine with homosexuality being perfectly acceptable.
Quote:I don't want to marry someone of the same gender/gay sex is disgusting!No one's forcing you to have/do anything. You can still have a heterosexual marriage and it'll be just the same as before. You don't have to go off and have gay sex the moment gay marriage is legalized. Now just because you don't like something doesn't mean no one else should be allowed to have it, personally I find peanuts to be vile, but I'm not trying to stop you from having them, nor does that mean that eating peanuts is wrong because I personally dislike something.
Right it's late and I've run out of things to type for now. Enjoy my wall of rambling text.