(05-13-2018, 03:09 PM)Pollux Wrote:

(05-13-2018, 03:07 PM)Falc Wrote: You guys have to remember FPS is a huge decision when choosing a map.

We’ve seen it before with V4B1, the FPS is awful when a full sever with props, V2D ISNT. Standard. Player interaction is massive too and V2D will be better than Pines.

I want FPS for when I play so that’s where my vote stands as well as interacting with everyone.

The FPS minor increase from switching to V2D will not be not be worth it, the core issue does not lie with the map. It looks like steps to increase performance are being taken so just give it time.

(05-13-2018, 05:20 PM)Floodify Wrote:

(05-13-2018, 03:09 PM)Pollux Wrote:

(05-13-2018, 03:07 PM)Falc Wrote: You guys have to remember FPS is a huge decision when choosing a map.

We’ve seen it before with V4B1, the FPS is awful when a full sever with props, V2D ISNT. Standard. Player interaction is massive too and V2D will be better than Pines.

I want FPS for when I play so that’s where my vote stands as well as interacting with everyone.

The FPS minor increase from switching to V2D will not be not be worth it, the core issue does not lie with the map. It looks like steps to increase performance are being taken so just give it time.

they (developers) can only do so much though, a huge part of the performance undeniably lies with the map and as such any better FPS map should be regarded as a major factor in the variable of deciding which map. Our Estleback headquarters of 800 props created massive playerside fps decrease for some players on v4b1, whilst on v2d - with the same prop amount - did not create as big of a fps decrease. It isn't lag, it's FPS decrease, and how the map is constructed a long with other factors (props, cars, entities) decides how the majority of players that enjoys an average computer actually can play decently.

V2d is smaller and offers less prop-extensions, which to some may seem boring .. but is far more preferable and by default more immersive for the players in general. FPS is a major contributor to how you immerse yourself in the roleplay, and the quality of the surroundings, albeit a less prettier, isn't that much of a relevance.. it's how it affects the players individually and then how it affects the whole gameplay in the grand spectrum; you unfortunately have to force players together to create a vivid experience, right now it's just too individualistic and that reflects onto the community as well. Trust me, I've been here a while.

(05-13-2018, 06:45 PM)Pollux Wrote:

(05-13-2018, 05:20 PM)Floodify Wrote:

(05-13-2018, 03:09 PM)Pollux Wrote:

(05-13-2018, 03:07 PM)Falc Wrote: You guys have to remember FPS is a huge decision when choosing a map.

We’ve seen it before with V4B1, the FPS is awful when a full sever with props, V2D ISNT. Standard. Player interaction is massive too and V2D will be better than Pines.

I want FPS for when I play so that’s where my vote stands as well as interacting with everyone.

The FPS minor increase from switching to V2D will not be not be worth it, the core issue does not lie with the map. It looks like steps to increase performance are being taken so just give it time.

they (developers) can only do so much though, a huge part of the performance undeniably lies with the map and as such any better FPS map should be regarded as a major factor in the variable of deciding which map. Our Estleback headquarters of 800 props created massive playerside fps decrease for some players on v4b1, whilst on v2d - with the same prop amount - did not create as big of a fps decrease. It isn't lag, it's FPS decrease, and how the map is constructed a long with other factors (props, cars, entities) decides how the majority of players that enjoys an average computer actually can play decently.

V2d is smaller and offers less prop-extensions, which to some may seem boring .. but is far more preferable and by default more immersive for the players in general. FPS is a major contributor to how you immerse yourself in the roleplay, and the quality of the surroundings, albeit a less prettier, isn't that much of a relevance.. it's how it affects the players individually and then how it affects the whole gameplay in the grand spectrum; you unfortunately have to force players together to create a vivid experience, right now it's just too individualistic and that reflects onto the community as well. Trust me, I've been here a while.

It's not like these maps are poorly optimised, they're usually optimised as well as they can. They have to be for larger maps like these. The gamemode has a bigger impact on FPS than any of these maps will. I do agree that V2D will give us more frames, it's a smaller map with way lower quality textures and polygons. Honestly though sometimes you have to ask if it's actually even worth it.

I really think that people are underestimating how big of an impact the map really has compared to the gamemode itself. This entire map vote is basically a choice between aesthetics and performance. It's not even like pines city does bad performance wise for what it has either. The gamemode has the biggest impact on performance compared to any other factor as long as the map is optimised well, which pines is. 

The same issue lies with the HL2RP community. They have to decide between two frameworks to decide how their performance is going to be. This is due to one being built for performance from the ground up and another being quite bloated but offers more features. The map is hardly a factor there because it isn't the core issue for performance, I don't think FL has realised this yet though. When looking at large maps you should really be looking at the features it will offer for the community, which is why I voted for Pines. I've also been here for a while.

Stop using the map as an excuse for poor FPS, it really isn't the core reason. There are honestly so so many other factors

(05-13-2018, 07:24 PM)JackZ Wrote:

(05-13-2018, 06:45 PM)Pollux Wrote:

(05-13-2018, 05:20 PM)Floodify Wrote:

(05-13-2018, 03:09 PM)Pollux Wrote:

(05-13-2018, 03:07 PM)Falc Wrote: You guys have to remember FPS is a huge decision when choosing a map.

We’ve seen it before with V4B1, the FPS is awful when a full sever with props, V2D ISNT. Standard. Player interaction is massive too and V2D will be better than Pines.

I want FPS for when I play so that’s where my vote stands as well as interacting with everyone.

The FPS minor increase from switching to V2D will not be not be worth it, the core issue does not lie with the map. It looks like steps to increase performance are being taken so just give it time.

they (developers) can only do so much though, a huge part of the performance undeniably lies with the map and as such any better FPS map should be regarded as a major factor in the variable of deciding which map. Our Estleback headquarters of 800 props created massive playerside fps decrease for some players on v4b1, whilst on v2d - with the same prop amount - did not create as big of a fps decrease. It isn't lag, it's FPS decrease, and how the map is constructed a long with other factors (props, cars, entities) decides how the majority of players that enjoys an average computer actually can play decently.

V2d is smaller and offers less prop-extensions, which to some may seem boring .. but is far more preferable and by default more immersive for the players in general. FPS is a major contributor to how you immerse yourself in the roleplay, and the quality of the surroundings, albeit a less prettier, isn't that much of a relevance.. it's how it affects the players individually and then how it affects the whole gameplay in the grand spectrum; you unfortunately have to force players together to create a vivid experience, right now it's just too individualistic and that reflects onto the community as well. Trust me, I've been here a while.

It's not like these maps are poorly optimised, they're usually optimised as well as they can. They have to be for larger maps like these. The gamemode has a bigger impact on FPS than any of these maps will. I do agree that V2D will give us more frames, it's a smaller map with way lower quality textures and polygons. Honestly though sometimes you have to ask if it's actually even worth it.

I really think that people are underestimating how big of an impact the map really has compared to the gamemode itself. This entire map vote is basically a choice between aesthetics and performance. It's not even like pines city does bad performance wise for what it has either. The gamemode has the biggest impact on performance compared to any other factor as long as the map is optimised well, which pines is. 

The same issue lies with the HL2RP community. They have to decide between two frameworks to decide how their performance is going to be. This is due to one being built for performance from the ground up and another being quite bloated but offers more features. The map is hardly a factor there because it isn't the core issue for performance, I don't think FL has realised this yet though. When looking at large maps you should really be looking at the features it will offer for the community, which is why I voted for Pines. I've also been here for a while.

Stop using the map as an excuse for poor FPS, it really isn't the core reason. There are honestly so so many other factors

Take this from a contributors point of view.

The main factor of FPS problems is obviously starting with the Game modes optimisation, but second is the map.
v2d was a place in which people with terrible and great PC's could both play at a high fps constantly - enabling them both to have the most fun while playing CityRP. The map may not be the core reason, but it sure is an absolutely massive factor. The map in which the most people will have fun on is v2d simply because performance issues are non existent as not only because the map isn't a laggy map, but because it disables the pointless weather mod we use called 'Stormfox' which does nothing good at all, it simply just decreases everyones FPS.

As well as all of this, Evocity maps are FL's "lore" - We should always stick to Evocity maps, Pines is going to be uncomfortable, always.

At this point all we can say is hopefully whatever the new map FL will change to is going to be one that we can all enjoy ourselves on and continue to play FL the way it's supposed to be played.

(05-13-2018, 07:57 PM)Joe Joe Wrote: Let us be realistic here, you do not have to be a genius to work out the nicer the map the lower the players FPS. Firstly yes Pines will have a lower FPS than V2D and V2D Sexy, however I and many others are willing to sacrifice a few FPS for a decent map. The way I look at it is that you have to have a middle ground. If we could get a map that looked lovely and had great FPS it would be perfect however that probably wont happen. So I am willing to sacrifice a few frames just for a better looking map. Both V2D and V2D_Sexy have better FPS but look horrible and have less Roleplay opportunities. So I know which one I want.

(05-13-2018, 07:57 PM)Joe Joe Wrote: Let us be realistic here, you do not have to be a genius to work out the nicer the map the lower the players FPS. Firstly yes Pines will have a lower FPS than V2D and V2D Sexy, however I and many others are willing to sacrifice a few FPS for a decent map. The way I look at it is that you have to have a middle ground. If we could get a map that looked lovely and had great FPS it would be perfect however that probably wont happen. So I am willing to sacrifice a few frames just for a better looking map. Both V2D and V2D_Sexy have better FPS but look horrible and have less Roleplay opportunities. So I know which one I want.

(05-13-2018, 08:24 PM)Fultz Wrote:

(05-13-2018, 07:57 PM)Joe Joe Wrote: Let us be realistic here, you do not have to be a genius to work out the nicer the map the lower the players FPS. Firstly yes Pines will have a lower FPS than V2D and V2D Sexy, however I and many others are willing to sacrifice a few FPS for a decent map. The way I look at it is that you have to have a middle ground. If we could get a map that looked lovely and had great FPS it would be perfect however that probably wont happen. So I am willing to sacrifice a few frames just for a better looking map. Both V2D and V2D_Sexy have better FPS but look horrible and have less Roleplay opportunities. So I know which one I want.

Does Pine really have more rp opportunities though? I would argue v2d has more rp capability over Pine anyway. V2d has more buildings than Pine in the city and is half the size (literally half).

Pine is going to have the same problems v2p have. It is too spaced out. What is going to end up happening is we are going to make a "city center" where people will only roleplay at (Which is currently outside of the nexus and the 3 shops beside it). And the rest of the city will not see use other than special roleplays here and there.

The reason I feel v2d is better than pine is this aspect. The buildings in the city are condensed to a point where interactions are going to be constant. All buildings will be used because they are all visible from the main road. So from the aspect of city, V2d is miles ahead of Pine. It is smaller and has more buildings.

Next the outside of the city.

Pine has the aspect of the circuit style road with the highway which gives police chase rps a good experience. V2d is only the single street which is bad in the sense of cop chases.  

Pines lake is also nicer than v2ds, however, if we are talking sexy's I would say they are similar. So I would say Pine has a better/equal lake depending on which v2d. And Pine has the better road system than v2d.

Now if we look at the rest of the map. I think both sexy and v2d have the better industrial area. MTL on v2d is the best mtl out of all the evocities. V2d and sexy both have a villa area while there is really no substitution on Pine that I have at least seen in my walkthrough, but you can correct me if I am wrong.

There is no slum area in Pine either (Unless you consider the half house area the slums). The slums are in my opinion the worst out of the Evo's on v2d.

I dunno. The only defense I understand out of all the ones I have seen for pine are removing certain updates (Which no storms or boats isnt that big of a deal in comparison to other removals) and not wanting to go backwards. Going backwards makes no sense to me either. We have used the same maps every switch. V2d / V33 / V2p. Those are the only maps we have used on FL. 

I would love for someone to reply to me. Either you Joe Joe or someone else. Tell me why Pine has better areas than v2d. (Not nicer looking, better used) Also, I would like to point out I didnt even bring up FPS. My argument of v2d or sexy is pure optimization.