MrTibo

[MrTibo]

Steam Name: MrTibo

SteamID: STEAM_0:1:85964434

BlacklistID(s): 111074

Blacklist Reason
Violence is still always the last option, and no, you cannot arrest somebody you just killed

Staff Member: Lewwings

Involved users
ratsalad (BMD)

Why should you be unblacklisted?
President told me there was a BMD throwing molotovs in nexus garage, when I checked it out I saw multiple people there, I tried to put 2 of them under fearrp which they didn't follow and just drove off
At the time I didn't notice who actually got in the car, reviewing the footage it was apparently the BMD, but how was I supposed to know that at the time, when I started opening fire because I had pointed a gun in my face, I didn't know entirely where the BMD was at the time because there was so much going on. as you can see when the car burst on fire it wasn't even the BMD's car, so I thought it was another driver. Then the BMD just popped up again at a corpse where I once again tried to put under fearrp thinking he was still alive and he slipped from my sight, where lewwings then picks me up telling me I can't arrest someone that just died, when he timed out I left too and saw that I was blacklisted for 6 HOURS, and for some reason also for Physgun where I absolutely don't see the reason why to
So a recap multiple people broke fearrp, BMD broke NLR and was racist at the end, and the whole situation was simply confusing as I was all the way alone
Excessive force is debatable, as I might have used excessive force unknowingly on innocent (well, unarmed maybe not innocent if they were running from the police coming out of Nexus) people, but to be sure I did because of the armed BMD. because in the video you can CLEARLY see the BMD pointing a gun in my face. but I am for sure appealing the fricking long physgun blacklist that for all I know I received for no reason, I don't understand why the blacklist has to be SO long in the first place

Also Lewwings, I told you there and then that I didn't know the BMD died, that gun that I picked up could've damn well been from another passenger, and you still decided to use it as an argument in the blacklist

Video below shows most of what happened

[Lewwings]

Thank-you for posting. Unblacklist request under review.

[Lewwings]

Good morning MrTibo,

The reason I awarded you with this blacklist was because of how you reacted to the situation shown in your video.

Within the first 35 seconds of your video, I had already noted some rule infractions that you had committed. While the occupants of the vehicle may of broken FearRP and ignored your orders - which is a common frustration that I sympathize with - that is not an open invitation for you to gun them down immediately. You had several options at your disposal at that moment, you could of made an @ call yourself for example to report the infraction, before engaging in a chase with your police vehicle, and possibly using a tactical manoeuvre or utilising some spikestrips to bring the criminals to justice. Instead you mowed them down with bullets, and in the process broke several rules including 3.1 (as there was no valid roleplay reason to shoot them as they could of been stopped in less destructive ways), 3.1a (you should consider being less trigger-happy as you should always engage in more passive approaches to ending chases or any sort of situation first, and only go full Rambo once you have exhausted such means), and 3.5 (your actions of killing criminals who posed no immediate threat to your life did not properly reflect the potential for loss of your job or liberty).

I can understand being in the heat of the moment and acting impulsively to resolve a perceived threat, but regardless what you did was against the rules. The big issue is when you state "when I started opening fire because I had pointed a gun in my face". The reason why it's the big issue is because it's exactly the problem. You should never have immediately opened fire on somebody just because they pointed a gun in your face, and you should of used the methods I mentioned above instead to resolve the escaping band of criminals from the Nexus, instead of simply whipping out your gun and spraying them down. Returning to why I decided it was appropriate to give you a 6 hour blacklist: I did so because I am not convinced that this concept of "violence is always the last option" is actually getting through to you. You have 4 prior blacklists involving weapons, three of which were issued in the last week alone. The cherry on the cake was at around the 38 second mark of your video, when you start to open fire at the escaping vehicle as other traffic containing completely innocent and uninvolved players was trying to drive down the street. If anything you're lucky at the leniency you've been given.

As for the argument of "Excessive force is debatable", I disagree as you should have never resorted to such an extreme show of force as a first course of action; that is the crucial aspect of this blacklist that I must insist upon your understanding of. The Black Market Dealer did indeed have a gun, but I have not noted anywhere in your own video to suggest where he threatened you, thus completely invalidating your need to obliterate him, his friends, and the car. 

The length of the blacklist is as long as it is because I think you need some time to cool off from using weaponry and revisit the rules on combat situations as not only have you not demonstrated an understanding of them but you also have showed no signs of trying to learn from your mistakes, even after the slew of weapons blacklists you have gained this past week. The reason I still included that last part of the blacklist was to remind you that by spraying bullets around to solve all your problems, you will inevitably run into problems as a result, whether sought or unsought - and regardless, at the end of the day: you still broke the rules as far as I can tell.

The only aspect I am willing to concede on was the initial blacklist from physgun, which was unintended as I was rather aiming to remove your access to the police officer job. This has been rectified however, and the blacklist shall remain as issued unless you convince me otherwise. I would of explained all of the above in the admin sit, however a technical issue on my end prevented me from doing so (game crash).

If you would like me to consider removing this blacklist, I would appreciate if you could reply with the following questions answered so I can come to an appropriate and objective conclusion:

Why should you be trusted with weapons again so soon after a clear disregard for the rules involving them in combat scenarios?
Do you understand that you have alternative options to shooting those who start a chase or break FearRP?
Will you realise that violence should always be your last course of action?

I await your response.

[MrTibo]

At some point you have to draw the line of what is excessive force and what is not, and that is what I simply don't understand, I myself have been gunned down plenty of times for accidentally pointing a gun or simply haveing a gun out, it's simply become confusing what is allowed and what is not. And in any case, the past few blacklists I've received have been purely accidental breaking of the rules, because I simply don't understand anymore what is allowed and what isn't and I don't see it properly explained anywhere. And your point of >you shouldn't have gunned them down just because you got a gun in your face< seems completely weird to me, because what would a police officer in real life do if they had someone 5 feet away from them point a gun at their head? Yes, they would be gunned down immediately.
And I think that if someone can make some things clear about the combat rules it shouldn't be a problem anymore to have me with weapons, as it was never my intention to break the combat rules, it is simply that I don't understand what crosses the line because you see so many different things happening, and most of the time no one ever gets punished when something happens to me that I would later find out is actually against the rules. It's all out of experience that I accidentally break rules because when you see others *apparently* break rules all the time with no punishments given, it gets in your head and in the end you don't think about it being against the rules anymore anymore. Especially when the rule is so vague..
E/ and sorry if some things are double or unclear I don't know how to word everything and English isn't my first language

[Lewwings]

Just so there is no confusion going forward and so you know (generally) what the score is:

You used excessive force because you shot at a car as a first course of action after one of the occupants flashed a gun at you. You should not have done that. You should of used FearRP (and made an @ call if they broke it), and you could of used spikestrips or got in your car and chased them. Under no circumstances should you have gunned them down like that. Just because others have broken the rules like this before, is no excuse for you to do the same. The rules are quite clear on this, but you are free to ask a member of staff for clarification next time you get into a pickle like this.

As for the whole "but real life" argument, let you remind you that this is a semi-serious recreation of reality, meaning that the rules triumph over any expected real life reactions. This is not a hard concept to grasp. I can understand if things are confusing because others seemingly don't get punished for breaking them, but at the end of the day there is a limit to how many rule breakages can be caught, how many @ calls can be investigated, and how many times the rules are properly upheld. We're not robots, so sometimes things can and do slip through the cracks unfortunately. Your best guide to staying on the right side of Fearless is the rules, and asking questions where there is confusion.

In the end though, you broke the rules, and I have not been convinced otherwise, nor were my questions answered.

Consider this denied.