Where is the development?

[John Jong]

-snip-

Hello thanks for the quick response however you mention that devs are busy with IRL things like I can assume some are but if they are a volunteer developer for FL its because they have stepped forwards and offered to help the community by developing for it.

If they are too busy to volunteer for the community then I see no point in them still being a dev here as they aren't volunteering anything which is what they essentially signed up for when they joined the team.

We have now been in a global lockdown for months now and I am sure that the most of you weren't at work or school during this time so I don't see how you could of basically all been so busy during the entirety of it.

I appreciate the devs who did put in time behind the scenes but this always seems like the easy way out and has been for years "oh yes me busy pfft not me I work behind the scenes." If you truly aren't busy and are putting content into FL then show it, you became a dev to unlock your cool little perms like the changelogs then use it. The last "update" of such was the government worker and SRU thing which is a copy-paste and rename job isn't that hard other than that its been bug fixes since May.

Yes, I know the FL gamemode is utter shite I have seen it myself everything is completely unorganised due to the number of different devs working on it over time.

My suggestion would be to instead of altering the current one to new standards just make a new gamemode following the same basics as the current one is, because all you are doing is like using a glue stick on a leaky oil pipe it will work for 10 seconds and the oil will continue to start dripping again.

My final point is payment, yes this would be a good way to encourage someone to make something but this would run out, it would be nice to see them get paid but then they have to meet deadlines and can lead to sloppy work, it may be nice to have big updates more regularly but devs wouldn't get the freedom as they currently do. I agree to maybe getting a small bit of money as a reward that Divey + SAs feel is deserved but I think this should be given and discussed after its completed as people shouldn't just make content because they know that they may get a few hundred from it, we as a community want good exciting fresh content that makes us want to play not some shitty content that we know was slapped together because the dev made a few hundred.

Again sorry for going on a rant again.

[Pollux]

-snip-

Hello thanks for the quick response however you mention that devs are busy with IRL things like I can assume some are but if they are a volunteer developer for FL its because they have stepped forwards and offered to help the community by developing for it.

If they are too busy to volunteer for the community then I see no point in them still being a dev here as they aren't volunteering anything which is what they essentially signed up for when they joined the team.

We have now been in a global lockdown for months now and I am sure that the most of you weren't at work or school during this time so I don't see how you could of basically all been so busy during the entirety of it.

I appreciate the devs who did put in time behind the scenes but this always seems like the easy way out and has been for years "oh yes me busy pfft not me I work behind the scenes." If you truly aren't busy and are putting content into FL then show it, you became a dev to unlock your cool little perms like the changelogs then use it. The last "update" of such was the government worker and SRU thing which is a copy-paste and rename job isn't that hard other than that its been bug fixes since May.

Yes, I know the FL gamemode is utter shite I have seen it myself everything is completely unorganised due to the number of different devs working on it over time.

My suggestion would be to instead of altering the current one to new standards just make a new gamemode following the same basics as the current one is, because all you are doing is like using a glue stick on a leaky oil pipe it will work for 10 seconds and the oil will continue to start dripping again.

My final point is payment, yes this would be a good way to encourage someone to make something but this would run out, it would be nice to see them get paid but then they have to meet deadlines and can lead to sloppy work, it may be nice to have big updates more regularly but devs wouldn't get the freedom as they currently do. I agree to maybe getting a small bit of money as a reward that Divey + SAs feel is deserved but I think this should be given and discussed after its completed as people shouldn't just make content because they know that they may get a few hundred from it, we as a community want good exciting fresh content that makes us want to play not some shitty content that we know was slapped together because the dev made a few hundred.

Again sorry for going on a rant again.

Trying to force a volunteer team to do stuff against their will would be a terrible idea (as shown in the past), your post is a good example of mostly what NOT to do.

With payment my suggestion would be set a fixed % of donations that will be given to the development budget per month. Give that budget to Conn who can then allocate it to projects as needed each month.

[Falcon]

I think all these problems could be solved with more transparency.

[Rylund]

-snip-

Hello thanks for the quick response however you mention that devs are busy with IRL things like I can assume some are but if they are a volunteer developer for FL its because they have stepped forwards and offered to help the community by developing for it.

If they are too busy to volunteer for the community then I see no point in them still being a dev here as they aren't volunteering anything which is what they essentially signed up for when they joined the team.

We have now been in a global lockdown for months now and I am sure that the most of you weren't at work or school during this time so I don't see how you could of basically all been so busy during the entirety of it.

I appreciate the devs who did put in time behind the scenes but this always seems like the easy way out and has been for years "oh yes me busy pfft not me I work behind the scenes." If you truly aren't busy and are putting content into FL then show it, you became a dev to unlock your cool little perms like the changelogs then use it. The last "update" of such was the government worker and SRU thing which is a copy-paste and rename job isn't that hard other than that its been bug fixes since May.

Yes, I know the FL gamemode is utter shite I have seen it myself everything is completely unorganised due to the number of different devs working on it over time.

My suggestion would be to instead of altering the current one to new standards just make a new gamemode following the same basics as the current one is, because all you are doing is like using a glue stick on a leaky oil pipe it will work for 10 seconds and the oil will continue to start dripping again.

My final point is payment, yes this would be a good way to encourage someone to make something but this would run out, it would be nice to see them get paid but then they have to meet deadlines and can lead to sloppy work, it may be nice to have big updates more regularly but devs wouldn't get the freedom as they currently do. I agree to maybe getting a small bit of money as a reward that Divey + SAs feel is deserved but I think this should be given and discussed after its completed as people shouldn't just make content because they know that they may get a few hundred from it, we as a community want good exciting fresh content that makes us want to play not some shitty content that we know was slapped together because the dev made a few hundred.

Again sorry for going on a rant again.

I can tell you I've been studying full time and working part-time, even though this pandemic has been raging. I personally don't know anyone who could just take off work or university through this pandemic, most universities have exactly the same workload if not more. I've been working more through the pandemic even though I am working in an office, it's not like the country can pause everything until it is over.

While we are volunteers, we are also still normal players and you can't exactly require that we spend x hours a week to work on something you want. While some developers may only do a few things such as bug fixes, it is still helping the community get something they would not have had if we were not here. It's not like we have any limit on the number of developers and if you feel like you know someone who will work for free and have a requirement to spend x hours for free a week, feel free to forward them to us!

I'm not sure if you read my reply or not, I stated that we were working on making a new gamemode with set standards for some time. We decided to put this project on hold, read in my previous reply why.

While you would like to know what is going on behind the scenes, what does that exactly bring to the table? You knowing that we have a new ACP would not bring any value to you, knowing everything Edned is working on with improving the cache and such on the website is not that useful information. The serious exploit fixes and the staff-features we are developing in the gamemode are not very helpful either, exploit fixes can be nice to know though.
I can agree that the "working on stuff behind the scenes" can seem like a bullshit excuse, and I know it has been used as bullshit excuses in the past. Currently, I can tell you that CodeKnight is working on something, which you will most likely know of soon. Edned is working on the website and makes sure that our servers are stable. Those are probably the most "behind the scenes" projects right now, the rest is known to the community (I.e. Contraband by Broccoli) 

You say that payment should not be on the table before finishing something, do you even know how the world works when it comes to getting paid for things? You would never begin working on a project without agreeing on a set price, either hourly or for the project, you could be wasting your time then. While this is a gmod community and we are voluntary, we can't expect to get nearly as much as if we had used our time working for a real company, but Divey said he would be paying developers and thus he should follow up with this. Also, setting a price for an update would not have the effect you are talking about, it would actually be the opposite of what you are saying. If you are getting paid for something, the people paying you are expecting some form of quality because they are using their money on it, if it is free you can't exactly set any harsh requirements to the quality of the content.


Nothing wrong with a rant JohnJong, getting criticism brings the community forwards and it is always appreciated if it is constructive :)

[Broccoli]

I think all these problems could be solved with more transparency.

Ah yes because the same community that harass the development team for updates and transparency are obliged to know what goes on within the team including all the business and management side in which their input really doesn't matter.

I'm fine with being transparent and letting people know what is being worked on and how but just because you want to stick your nose into all things behind the scenes doesn't mean the problems will magically be fixed.

[Falcon]

I think all these problems could be solved with more transparency.

Ah yes because the same community that harass the development team for updates and transparency are obliged to know what goes on within the team including all the business and management side in which their input really doesn't matter.

I'm fine with being transparent and letting people know what is being worked on and how but just because you want to stick your nose into all things behind the scenes doesn't mean the problems will magically be fixed.

It definitely wouldn’t hurt.

[Nadrickk]

(TLR: Your imagination is your limit, not the lack of updates)
My opinion may be unpopular but,

As so many already mentioned, developers need motivation too - And if they are constantly being told demeaning things about their work (or lack of it), no wonder they're not motivated.
I get Fearless needs to stay up-to-date in order to compete with other servers, but all I'm thinking is "why" do we need the updates?
Fearless already has so many features in order for people to Roleplay, and you can have great RP's with what the server currently contain... Yes, more updates means more possibillities, but I dont see it as a huge problem - I think it's great things are being worked on, and knowing thingss will come in the future, but it's not essential.

I see other issues, that may need to be brought up, before the focus turns to development. But thats just my 2 cent But dont get me wrong, Yes! The gamemode needs to be updated, obviously, to compete with others. But I think there is other issues that should be prioritized, rather than the development.. (Won't go off-topic though)