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The staff team
#91
(Yesterday, 01:41 AM)Prosto Wrote: Let me try to explain why applications wont work.

First of all, its not about simply banning minges, surely if staff job was just banning massive propkillers, 90% of community could become staff. It also involves working with people, dealing with somewhat stressful situations. Its involves talking to people, investigating(sort of), and being as unbiased as possible.

Now lets imagine apps do get added. Everyone will start posting applications, and what happens next? How do you know who is capable/trustworthy etc etc? Short answer - You cant. Why? Simply because as soon as player post application they become "exceptional player" good behaviour etc. They know they are being watched, they know that if they want to become staff they need to behave well. You are delusional if you dont understand it.

Players behave completly different in natural environment, this allows staff to pick people judging by their actions not words like "Hi I love FL and RP I be good I promise"

Surely you can say but people still asslick without applications. They do, but during my time on FL I met only 3 or 4 people who became admin via blatant asslicking. Guess what 2 of them didnt even pass trial/mod stage. Trust me, asslicking is VERY obvious, especially if its massive.

But there are already biased admins! - Maybe you are right, but still its not as massive as it would be if applications existed.

One last time, Applications simply will not work. People will change behaviour. You dont know if you can trust said people. You dont know if those people are biased or not. Staff job is not only about typing out "!ban %username% 5days propkilling" if it was only that, it would be completly different story
Thanks.

If you can do me one favour then sir, come up with a solution that is going to fix the fact the staff team do not bother coming on the server. If you even so say "Give them time to become active", "Things will/are being done", "they have lives" then ima have to spank you because all of this shit has been said, three months ago they said they would sort it but nothing has happened. And, i don't know if you've read other replies or threads, but them having a life preventing them coming on the server is an extremely half assed excuse. If they have something else better to be doing than administrating on FL at least once a week for a couple hours then leave the position to allow for someone else to come and fulfil the job correctly. I understand it is voluntary, however, if you're a volunteer at your local charity shop but never work there then you would leave would you not? As you cannot give up the time for them.

Another argument you may say is that it's not about letting go, we just need to increase the size of the staff team. What is the point in having a large staff team? I would rather a staff team of 7 people who are actively doing their job than a staff team of 20 who come on when they can be bothered, whip out their ego and act biased.

Ya know, it might just do the server some good to have some people tryharding, actually learning the rules. We might have a little more success in defeating the minges that way.

You are the same as everyone else, you overlook the fact an application does not just get accepted. There is a period a player is monitored and most players i can guarentee with get bored with being the good guy, go back to their old ways and have their application denied. Does this then defeat the point in applications? Not at all because it's only a small majority that would do it. They do not just go straight into a trial period, there is so much more to it than that. Just because an application is posted does not then require that candidate to follow through with it, or the requirements.

As for your point on asslicking people getting admin, you're fairly right in the fact asslickers don't get admin. It's the admin's friends. Either way, it is a very specific audience that get admin through a very, very, very biased system.

One thing i've also noticed is that it is all of the inactive members of the community, people who don't play only making an occasional comment on the forums, that are against applications because you have no idea about the modern staff team. Come and join the server for a week, put up with what we do with absolutely no admins on, then give us another solution to fixing the issue.
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The following 1 user Likes BasicallyMental's post:
  • Aryen
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#92
So opening staff applications is suddenly gonna make staff become active enough to go through shit tonnes of applications?

Good luck with that.

Reply
#93
(Yesterday, 01:08 PM)BasicallyMental Wrote:
(Yesterday, 01:41 AM)Prosto Wrote: Let me try to explain why applications wont work.

First of all, its not about simply banning minges, surely if staff job was just banning massive propkillers, 90% of community could become staff. It also involves working with people, dealing with somewhat stressful situations. Its involves talking to people, investigating(sort of), and being as unbiased as possible.

Now lets imagine apps do get added. Everyone will start posting applications, and what happens next? How do you know who is capable/trustworthy etc etc? Short answer - You cant. Why? Simply because as soon as player post application they become "exceptional player" good behaviour etc. They know they are being watched, they know that if they want to become staff they need to behave well. You are delusional if you dont understand it.

Players behave completly different in natural environment, this allows staff to pick people judging by their actions not words like "Hi I love FL and RP I be good I promise"

Surely you can say but people still asslick without applications. They do, but during my time on FL I met only 3 or 4 people who became admin via blatant asslicking. Guess what 2 of them didnt even pass trial/mod stage. Trust me, asslicking is VERY obvious, especially if its massive.

But there are already biased admins! - Maybe you are right, but still its not as massive as it would be if applications existed.

One last time, Applications simply will not work. People will change behaviour. You dont know if you can trust said people. You dont know if those people are biased or not. Staff job is not only about typing out "!ban %username% 5days propkilling" if it was only that, it would be completly different story
Thanks.

If you can do me one favour then sir, come up with a solution that is going to fix the fact the staff team do not bother coming on the server. If you even so say "Give them time to become active", "Things will/are being done", "they have lives" then ima have to spank you because all of this shit has been said, three months ago they said they would sort it but nothing has happened. And, i don't know if you've read other replies or threads, but them having a life preventing them coming on the server is an extremely half assed excuse. If they have something else better to be doing than administrating on FL at least once a week for a couple hours then leave the position to allow for someone else to come and fulfil the job correctly. I understand it is voluntary, however, if you're a volunteer at your local charity shop but never work there then you would leave would you not? As you cannot give up the time for them.

Another argument you may say is that it's not about letting go, we just need to increase the size of the staff team. What is the point in having a large staff team? I would rather a staff team of 7 people who are actively doing their job than a staff team of 20 who come on when they can be bothered, whip out their ego and act biased.

I have no idea why you started a rant about current admin team in reply to my post, I never mentioned activity of current staff team, and I am not denying that current staff is inactive. Seriously, I have no idea why you posted it here.

Ya know, it might just do the server some good to have some people tryharding, actually learning the rules. We might have a little more success in defeating the minges that way.

Knowing the rules and being trustworthy is 2 different things.

You are the same as everyone else, you overlook the fact an application does not just get accepted. There is a period a player is monitored and most players i can guarentee with get bored with being the good guy, go back to their old ways and have their application denied. Does this then defeat the point in applications? Not at all because it's only a small majority that would do it. They do not just go straight into a trial period, there is so much more to it than that. Just because an application is posted does not then require that candidate to follow through with it, or the requirements.

"Boo hoo you are just like everyone else" - No, this is exactly what will happen. It happened with teacher apps before, it will happen with staff apps now. Imagine if people changed their behaviour for shitty rank that increased their proplimit by 10 and gave them illisuion of power, what will happen with rank that gives them full power on server. If you dont see and understand that, then sorry, you are dumb.

As for your point on asslicking people getting admin, you're fairly right in the fact asslickers don't get admin. It's the admin's friends. Either way, it is a very specific audience that get admin through a very, very, very biased system.

Thats not always true. There was one guy Narcotic (ex SA) he wasnt friend of anyone, but he got admin when he had around 300 hours, because he was amazing RPer and chill guy, then he became SA. (I wont mention what happened later tho, since its not the topic) Also it will always happen in any environment, if you are friend of someone you know how said person behave, that way you can trust them more. I myself been part of this community for 7 years, was close friends with 3 or 4 SAs, dozens of admins, got a total of 5 bans in 7 years. WHERE IS MY FUCKING ADMIN RANK HUH?!?!?!?

One thing i've also noticed is that it is all of the inactive members of the community, people who don't play only making an occasional comment on the forums, that are against applications because you have no idea about the modern staff team. Come and join the server for a week, put up with what we do with absolutely no admins on, then give us another solution to fixing the issue.

Here you can simply fuck off, you are like one of those people who say "Direct your own movie before you judge another movie" or "You cant judge the singer, unless you are a singer yourself"

I understand the frustration, and I am not denying that staff team is inactive. Sorry, before you start ranting about current staff team again thinking I defend them, Ill repeat:  

I AM NOT DENYING THAT CURRENT STAFF IS INACTIVE AND SOMETHING NEED TO BE DONE!

But applications is not the exit, team does need new people, and SA do need to demote or force to resing inactive people, or have some forces guidance where you need to be active X amount of hours a week, and by that I mean being actually active and not just "AFKRP"

Reply
#94
(Yesterday, 02:32 PM)Prosto Wrote:
(Yesterday, 01:08 PM)BasicallyMental Wrote:
(Yesterday, 01:41 AM)Prosto Wrote: Let me try to explain why applications wont work.

First of all, its not about simply banning minges, surely if staff job was just banning massive propkillers, 90% of community could become staff. It also involves working with people, dealing with somewhat stressful situations. Its involves talking to people, investigating(sort of), and being as unbiased as possible.

Now lets imagine apps do get added. Everyone will start posting applications, and what happens next? How do you know who is capable/trustworthy etc etc? Short answer - You cant. Why? Simply because as soon as player post application they become "exceptional player" good behaviour etc. They know they are being watched, they know that if they want to become staff they need to behave well. You are delusional if you dont understand it.

Players behave completly different in natural environment, this allows staff to pick people judging by their actions not words like "Hi I love FL and RP I be good I promise"

Surely you can say but people still asslick without applications. They do, but during my time on FL I met only 3 or 4 people who became admin via blatant asslicking. Guess what 2 of them didnt even pass trial/mod stage. Trust me, asslicking is VERY obvious, especially if its massive.

But there are already biased admins! - Maybe you are right, but still its not as massive as it would be if applications existed.

One last time, Applications simply will not work. People will change behaviour. You dont know if you can trust said people. You dont know if those people are biased or not. Staff job is not only about typing out "!ban %username% 5days propkilling" if it was only that, it would be completly different story
Thanks.

If you can do me one favour then sir, come up with a solution that is going to fix the fact the staff team do not bother coming on the server. If you even so say "Give them time to become active", "Things will/are being done", "they have lives" then ima have to spank you because all of this shit has been said, three months ago they said they would sort it but nothing has happened. And, i don't know if you've read other replies or threads, but them having a life preventing them coming on the server is an extremely half assed excuse. If they have something else better to be doing than administrating on FL at least once a week for a couple hours then leave the position to allow for someone else to come and fulfil the job correctly. I understand it is voluntary, however, if you're a volunteer at your local charity shop but never work there then you would leave would you not? As you cannot give up the time for them.

Another argument you may say is that it's not about letting go, we just need to increase the size of the staff team. What is the point in having a large staff team? I would rather a staff team of 7 people who are actively doing their job than a staff team of 20 who come on when they can be bothered, whip out their ego and act biased.

I have no idea why you started a rant about current admin team in reply to my post, I never mentioned activity of current staff team, and I am not denying that current staff is inactive. Seriously, I have no idea why you posted it here.

Ya know, it might just do the server some good to have some people tryharding, actually learning the rules. We might have a little more success in defeating the minges that way.

Knowing the rules and being trustworthy is 2 different things.

You are the same as everyone else, you overlook the fact an application does not just get accepted. There is a period a player is monitored and most players i can guarentee with get bored with being the good guy, go back to their old ways and have their application denied. Does this then defeat the point in applications? Not at all because it's only a small majority that would do it. They do not just go straight into a trial period, there is so much more to it than that. Just because an application is posted does not then require that candidate to follow through with it, or the requirements.

"Boo hoo you are just like everyone else" - No, this is exactly what will happen. It happened with teacher apps before, it will happen with staff apps now. Imagine if people changed their behaviour for shitty rank that increased their proplimit by 10 and gave them illisuion of power, what will happen with rank that gives them full power on server. If you dont see and understand that, then sorry, you are dumb.

As for your point on asslicking people getting admin, you're fairly right in the fact asslickers don't get admin. It's the admin's friends. Either way, it is a very specific audience that get admin through a very, very, very biased system.

Thats not always true. There was one guy Narcotic (ex SA) he wasnt friend of anyone, but he got admin when he had around 300 hours, because he was amazing RPer and chill guy, then he became SA. (I wont mention what happened later tho, since its not the topic) Also it will always happen in any environment, if you are friend of someone you know how said person behave, that way you can trust them more. I myself been part of this community for 7 years, was close friends with 3 or 4 SAs, dozens of admins, got a total of 5 bans in 7 years. WHERE IS MY FUCKING ADMIN RANK HUH?!?!?!?

One thing i've also noticed is that it is all of the inactive members of the community, people who don't play only making an occasional comment on the forums, that are against applications because you have no idea about the modern staff team. Come and join the server for a week, put up with what we do with absolutely no admins on, then give us another solution to fixing the issue.

Here you can simply fuck off, you are like one of those people who say "Direct your own movie before you judge another movie" or "You cant judge the singer, unless you are a singer yourself"

I understand the frustration, and I am not denying that staff team is inactive. Sorry, before you start ranting about current staff team again thinking I defend them, Ill repeat:  

I AM NOT DENYING THAT CURRENT STAFF IS INACTIVE AND SOMETHING NEED TO BE DONE!

But applications is not the exit, team does need new people, and SA do need to demote or force to resing inactive people, or have some forces guidance where you need to be active X amount of hours a week, and by that I mean being actually active and not just "AFKRP"


Cutting out how Narcotic was incredibly abusive? Hmmm
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The following 2 users Like Killroy's post:
  • Prosto, Agorith
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#95
(Yesterday, 01:41 AM)Prosto Wrote: Let me try to explain why applications wont work.

First of all, its not about simply banning minges, surely if staff job was just banning massive propkillers, 90% of community could become staff. It also involves working with people, dealing with somewhat stressful situations. Its involves talking to people, investigating(sort of), and being as unbiased as possible.

Now lets imagine apps do get added. Everyone will start posting applications, and what happens next? How do you know who is capable/trustworthy etc etc? Short answer - You cant. Why? Simply because as soon as player post application they become "exceptional player" good behaviour etc. They know they are being watched, they know that if they want to become staff they need to behave well. You are delusional if you dont understand it.

Players behave completly different in natural environment, this allows staff to pick people judging by their actions not words like "Hi I love FL and RP I be good I promise"

Surely you can say but people still asslick without applications. They do, but during my time on FL I met only 3 or 4 people who became admin via blatant asslicking. Guess what 2 of them didnt even pass trial/mod stage. Trust me, asslicking is VERY obvious, especially if its massive.

But there are already biased admins! - Maybe you are right, but still its not as massive as it would be if applications existed.

One last time, Applications simply will not work. People will change behaviour. You dont know if you can trust said people. You dont know if those people are biased or not. Staff job is not only about typing out "!ban %username% 5days propkilling" if it was only that, it would be completly different story
Thanks.

I definitely agree. People will change behaviour for a short amount of time just to get the rank. But it won't happen only cause of applications. Of course, the number of people who would change would increase if apps were opened but there's still quite a few people who might have a chance of getting TAdmin and still asslick or behave good so the admins notice them. Some people might say that applications are not good for the long run, and that's partly true, in some communities there's people who join just to become staff one day and once they're bored, they leave for a long time. Fearless is not like that, it's a community which has kept together different people for many years who still play even though they might have taken breaks or left at some point. I'm pretty sure there are some active players who want to become staff and would be great at it, and wouldn't stop being active once they got their rank and resign when bored. If the staff doesn't even have time to come on and do some sits/punish rule breakers how will they even have time to monitor potential new staff members? Applications make it much easier for the team to find the right ones. We also have an idea of what everyone's like, and if they apply and change their behaviour it would be pretty obvious. So I'd say opening applications for a while would be a good idea and only adding like 3 new staff members to see its results, it would help the server massively.
Aryen
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#96
(Yesterday, 02:30 PM)Danny Boy Wrote: So opening staff applications is suddenly gonna make staff become active enough to go through shit tonnes of applications?

Good luck with that.

This doesn't even make any sense..?
Adding new staff members would make the team's job much easier as there would be more of them, that doesn't mean that the current team will suddenly become active
Aryen
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