The staff system

[Mist]

I think that we can come up with a conclusion then..


Being good friends with admins does indeed boost your chances, tough which I really don't like.

I disagree that it removes the "human-element", and the applications should be tried out before saying this, because there's a lot of communities which proves otherwise.

You want to see how people act in-game, when there's invisible admins following them, instead of listening to people by having applications. There's so few and rare occasions in these huge servers (like this one), where there's bad admins by having applications. I see all staff teams working together as one unit, being good friends and all with applications. I really don't think that a guy who's been on the server for, let's say 600+ hours would lie in his application.

There's a lot of downsides, however there's also a lot of good potential in having applications, but the majority of this thread seems not to like the idea, and therefore I will shut my mouth and let the old system that is in place, do it's thing. Even though there seems to be some confusion between the admins, in what how the selection process is, but it's still clear enough to me.

[Nacreas]

I think that we can come up with a conclusion then..


Being good friends with admins does indeed boost your chances, tough which I really don't like.

I disagree that it removes the "human-element", and the applications should be tried out before saying this, because there's a lot of communities which proves otherwise.

You want to see how people act in-game, when there's invisible admins following them, instead of listening to people by having applications. There's so few and rare occasions in these huge servers (like this one), where there's bad admins by having applications. I see all staff teams working together as one unit, being good friends and all with applications. I really don't think that a guy who's been on the server for, let's say 600+ hours would lie in his application.

There's a lot of downsides, however there's also a lot of good potential in having applications, but the majority of this thread seems not to like the idea, and therefore I will shut my mouth and let the old system that is in place, do it's thing. Even though there seems to be some confusion between the admins, in what how the selection process is, but it's still clear enough to me.

It's almost as if you've ignored or failed to understand what we're telling you.

"Being good friends with admins does indeed boost your chances, tough which I really don't like."
To be a friend of an admin you don't kiss-ass, be friendly to everyone, easy-going and generally polite. These are traits I personally look for in potential staff.

"You want to see how people act in-game, when there's invisible admins following them, instead of listening to people by having applications."

Your server conduct shows us how you really behave. Sure you could make up some BS about being an amazing person, knowing all of the rules and having experience on other servers, but when it comes down to it, we want to determine whether you're fit for staff duties or not.

"I really don't think that a guy who's been on the server for, let's say 600+ hours would lie in his application."

People with 600 hours have been promoted to moderator. Two names I can think of are GeorgeTheBoy and SirCrow.

[Killjoy]

While giving people forms and applications to fill out will definitely lead to an increase in potential candidates, FL has always preferred quality over quantity when it comes to personnel. It's all about knowing the person we're dealing with. Many people have been 'under monitoring' for over 50 hours of gameplay before a decision could be made.
Think about it this way: you're running a company and need to hire someone for a very important position. The least you'd expect is to look the person deep in the eye and see who you're dealing with. While FL never really had the resources to track down and have face to face interviews with any staff candidates, we've always believed our method to be the next best thing.

PS: People with 800+ hours have also lied, a lot.

[HellShell]

You could possibly combine these 2 methodes, correct?
Say you put up a thread for applications, and you eventually have to pick 10 possible candidates, you could use the current system and rule people out till you have found the right one, maybe even a couple of people could be chosen.

Sorry if it is described vaguely, hope the point got across.

[Faustie]

Combining the methods (which we would've done anyway) would not remove the problems inherent to applications. Players will still lie and mask their faults with clever wording - to believe otherwise is incredibly naive - and once they've posted an application they may act differently than they would normally do, even when an admin isn't online; thanks to this thread and others like it, they'd be well aware that they'd be very closely monitored from the instant they posted their application.

[James_Gaff]

While giving people forms and applications to fill out will definitely lead to an increase in potential candidates, FL has always preferred quality over quantity when it comes to personnel. It's all about knowing the person we're dealing with. Many people have been 'under monitoring' for over 50 hours of gameplay before a decision could be made.
Think about it this way: you're running a company and need to hire someone for a very important position. The least you'd expect is to look the person deep in the eye and see who you're dealing with. While FL never really had the resources to track down and have face to face interviews with any staff candidates, we've always believed our method to be the next best thing.

PS: People with 800+ hours have also lied, a lot.

But real companies require you to hand in a CV.

Why is an application any different? You create a shortlist of the applications, then go about however else the staff team works on promotions.

[Rolorox]

I think that we can come up with a conclusion then..
Being good friends with admins does indeed boost your chances, tough which I really don't like.
I disagree that it removes the "human-element", and the applications should be tried out before saying this, because there's a lot of communities which proves otherwise.

You want to see how people act in-game, when there's invisible admins following them, instead of listening to people by having applications. There's so few and rare occasions in these huge servers (like this one), where there's bad admins by having applications. I see all staff teams working together as one unit, being good friends and all with applications. I really don't think that a guy who's been on the server for, let's say 600+ hours would lie in his application.
There's a lot of downsides, however there's also a lot of good potential in having applications, but the majority of this thread seems not to like the idea, and therefore I will shut my mouth and let the old system that is in place, do it's thing. Even though there seems to be some confusion between the admins, in what how the selection process is, but it's still clear enough to me.

yeah you guys really need to understand something. Literally. I like to say I am friends with a lot of people in this community. I try to be nice and welcoming to all members. I let everyone add me on steam and always answer personal questions/help with roleplays and stuff when I am not busy. Most people couldn't be bothered to do that but it is because I care about our community.... But I am not actually friend friends with anyone really. I have a real life, with real friends. I would not put my friends on here above them. Thats just the truth. But as it has been stated and still you are for some reason beating around, I don't know why you are, it is almost as if you are grasping at a reason to hate our system when there isn't one. Anyway, as has been said the only reason it seems that friends of staff get promoted is because they are knowledgeable roleplayers. When you look into a candidate you would like to get to know them on a personal level. Doesn't mean every staff member is going to start talking to you, nor does it mean we will actually become friends.

Most of the time however, after talking to these players and sharing a common interest. A friendship just builds. Then as you start to know who the player is, the more you see them around and the more you guys chat. After a while it gets to the point where you not only see them as a good player and possible candidate for staff, but as well as someone you get a long with, someone you could work well with and yes potentially a friend. Trust me not everyone on staff are freaking best buds, but when we meet and talk we all share common likes and I'd say for the most part we are all friends in one way or another. Which improves the team dynamic so much more than one would assume.

So just to state once and for all. No just because you are friends with an admin will not get you a position because we have a lot of friends here and they are not all being promoted. BUT if you have the qualities we look for and just help others as a potential staff member would, then naturally we are just going to gravitate towards a good person like that. We will most likely end up friends anyway.

Also I definitely want to stay with the hand picked method. You aren't taking into account how critical the staff team is and the fact that we take so long looking into players. How shitty do you think it will feel when players send in applications and they start getting denied. Yeah, think about that one. I would rather not have a bunch of stingy players all pissed because we denied their admin app. Path of least resistance can be the path of best results.

[Killjoy]

Indeed, people often miss the point that many staff members befriend people they see potential in, not the other way around.

Obviously the team will always favor people they like. That's not necessarily a bad thing, you can't build a functioning unit out of people who despise one another. It all comes down to reason in the end. Since the team will keep building itself up with people who share the same values as the recruiters, it's up to te general public to provide loud feedback when they fear things are going the wrong way.

Mingy people will favor minges they have fun with and try to hold down those who uphold a serious and strict environment. Meanwhile the harsher type will keep progressing to build a more controlled, autocratic environment. Both sides are bad for business, as extremes will always lead to more conflict.

[Pinky]

If only you knew the amount of things that is taken into consideration when a player is being promoted.

Writing an application dosent show if they are dedicated or not, its shows they are able to write an application. Anyone can go ahead and do it.

^ this

I like the way things are now i dont think an application system would work.

[Obay]

The staff picked system is all around more effective and the best technique of picking staff, it always will be, reason stated by the other member above ^^

Being an administrator and seeing it ALL. That is my opinion.