The staff system

[Nyander]

Anyone can put up a fancy application being all professional and all that. You don't get to know someone that well from his fancy words for all you know it could be all fake.

The staff system is like no other, its unique and its good. I understand that sometimes stuff don't come on the server or don't respond to calls but you need to understand that they're human too. It's their job that they don't get paid for the team are doing dedicating they're own real-life time to come on a server because they care for the community. Not to mention keeping the forums and doing all of the ban requests and the unban requests which can be a real pain sometime. 

A thank you to all staff who dedicated their time. 

[Rolorox]

Anyone can put up a fancy application being all professional and all that. You don't get to know someone that well from his fancy words for all you know it could be all fake.

The staff system is like no other, its unique and its good. I understand that sometimes stuff don't come on the server or don't respond to calls but you need to understand that they're human too. It's their job that they don't get paid for the team are doing dedicating they're own real-life time to come on a server because they care for the community. Not to mention keeping the forums and doing all of the ban requests and the unban requests which can be a real pain sometime. 

A thank you to all staff who dedicated their time. 

shut up. Jk you are great MLG NightfuryMcRaptorXAgentQuickscopingKingXVeyron[Faze]

[Mist]

Alright, well..

I understand what a lot of what you're saying, and it seems like my point can't really be proved to be good, before it has been tried. And all of your arguments are good, and I'm also glad that somebody appreciates threads like these.

I understand that you're all satisfied with the current system that you all have now, and I can't do anything about that. Thanks for clearing up much of my questions.

[James_Gaff]

I like how many conflicting sides the admins give.

It seems even they don't know how the process works.

Elaborate please.

As an example of my point,

Nevy says being friends with an admin doesn't improve your chances at all, you yourself say otherwise, that
"Of course people we're friends with tend to get staff positions."
and  
"That's why the staff befriend them in the first place."

Though there are some obvious standards the team follow when looking to promotions of possible moderators, but to me, this thread has made it evident there aren't any clear standards. As Von Tempski has said, the fact there is no transparency meaning we have no real, up to date, knowledge of how the system really works. Agreeably, I'm sure each admin looks for something different in what they want on the team, but perhaps generalised standards would speed up the process and keep an active moderator, and administrator, team.

To add to this, you say that applications would standardize players, though perhaps this would actually help. From my personal experiences, servers (of this size and larger) who have applications create a larger, equally if not more, dedicated staff team that moderate the server at all times. Applications, again from experience of other servers, speed up the application process. Those that may be quieter than others, who sit in the corner, so to say, get a chance to put themselves out in the open a bit more. Show who they really are to the staff team. This can also help improve the time zoning issues. I know the team is wide and varied of where you all live, though you can't always see possible potential staff. I'm sure a lot of potential staff members are, essentially, overlooked due to not being on at the same time as staff. Applications are generally a factor toward removal of any of these issues.  

And to you Vauld. If you're trying suggesting I want staff, I really don't. I'm not going to deny for a long time I have, but at this current time I don't enjoy Garry's Mod as much as I did and don't have as much time to spend on video games as I used to.

[Nacreas]

I like how many conflicting sides the admins give.

It seems even they don't know how the process works.

Elaborate please.

As an example of my point,

Nevy says being friends with an admin doesn't improve your chances at all, you yourself say otherwise, that
"Of course people we're friends with tend to get staff positions."
and  
"That's why the staff befriend them in the first place."

Though there are some obvious standards the team follow when looking to promotions of possible moderators, but to me, this thread has made it evident there aren't any clear standards. As Von Tempski has said, the fact there is no transparency meaning we have no real, up to date, knowledge of how the system really works. Agreeably, I'm sure each admin looks for something different in what they want on the team, but perhaps generalised standards would speed up the process and keep an active moderator, and administrator, team.

To add to this, you say that applications would standardize players, though perhaps this would actually help. From my personal experiences, servers (of this size and larger) who have applications create a larger, equally if not more, dedicated staff team that moderate the server at all times. Applications, again from experience of other servers, speed up the application process. Those that may be quieter than others, who sit in the corner, so to say, get a chance to put themselves out in the open a bit more. Show who they really are to the staff team. This can also help improve the time zoning issues. I know the team is wide and varied of where you all live, though you can't always see possible potential staff. I'm sure a lot of potential staff members are, essentially, overlooked due to not being on at the same time as staff. Applications are generally a factor toward removal of any of these issues.  

And to you Vauld. If you're trying suggesting I want staff, I really don't. I'm not going to deny for a long time I have, but at this current time I don't enjoy Garry's Mod as much as I did and don't have as much time to spend on video games as I used to.

Contrary to popular belief, a larger team is more detrimental to productivity. Each staff member must provide their input on decisions made internally unless they've given notice of inactivity for whatever reason. More admins would also mean having to wait more time to come to a final decision. Believe it or not, SAs don't run the team solo, the team work as a team and that's why it works.

A TeamSpeak meeting we had a few weeks ago:
[Image: IkZu5zp.png]

I fully understand the need for server moderation, however, regardless of how many people you promote, there will never be an admin on 24/7 despite our efforts. All we can do is continue to make the best of what we can with what we have; a professional and effective team.

[Mist]

I like how many conflicting sides the admins give.
It seems even they don't know how the process works.

Elaborate please.

As an example of my point,
Nevy says being friends with an admin doesn't improve your chances at all, you yourself say otherwise, that
"Of course people we're friends with tend to get staff positions."
and  
"That's why the staff befriend them in the first place."
Though there are some obvious standards the team follow when looking to promotions of possible moderators, but to me, this thread has made it evident there aren't any clear standards. As Von Tempski has said, the fact there is no transparency meaning we have no real, up to date, knowledge of how the system really works. Agreeably, I'm sure each admin looks for something different in what they want on the team, but perhaps generalised standards would speed up the process and keep an active moderator, and administrator, team.
To add to this, you say that applications would standardize players, though perhaps this would actually help. From my personal experiences, servers (of this size and larger) who have applications create a larger, equally if not more, dedicated staff team that moderate the server at all times. Applications, again from experience of other servers, speed up the application process. Those that may be quieter than others, who sit in the corner, so to say, get a chance to put themselves out in the open a bit more. Show who they really are to the staff team. This can also help improve the time zoning issues. I know the team is wide and varied of where you all live, though you can't always see possible potential staff. I'm sure a lot of potential staff members are, essentially, overlooked due to not being on at the same time as staff. Applications are generally a factor toward removal of any of these issues.  
And to you Vauld. If you're trying suggesting I want staff, I really don't. I'm not going to deny for a long time I have, but at this current time I don't enjoy Garry's Mod as much as I did and don't have as much time to spend on video games as I used to.

Contrary to popular belief, a larger team is more detrimental to productivity. Each staff member must provide their input on decisions made internally unless they've given notice of inactivity for whatever reason. More admins would also mean having to wait more time to come to a final decision. Believe it or not, SAs don't run the team solo, the team work as a team and that's why it works.
A TeamSpeak meeting we had a few weeks ago:
[Image: IkZu5zp.png]
I fully understand the need for server moderation, however, regardless of how many people you promote, there will never be an admin on 24/7 despite our efforts. All we can do is continue to make the best of what we can with what we have; a professional and effective team.

You can still easily work together as a team even if applications are involved. I don't see how hand-picking people can make your teamwork better?

If you think that by having more moderators (which isn't really intended in this thread), would slow down the process of a team meeting, then why not change the things up a bit? Then all of those who had any input could then say something, instead of everybody NEEDS to say something.

[Innovative]

I Should be King Admin INNOFURKINGADMIN2K12

[Nacreas]

I like how many conflicting sides the admins give.
It seems even they don't know how the process works.

Elaborate please.

As an example of my point,
Nevy says being friends with an admin doesn't improve your chances at all, you yourself say otherwise, that
"Of course people we're friends with tend to get staff positions."
and  
"That's why the staff befriend them in the first place."
Though there are some obvious standards the team follow when looking to promotions of possible moderators, but to me, this thread has made it evident there aren't any clear standards. As Von Tempski has said, the fact there is no transparency meaning we have no real, up to date, knowledge of how the system really works. Agreeably, I'm sure each admin looks for something different in what they want on the team, but perhaps generalised standards would speed up the process and keep an active moderator, and administrator, team.
To add to this, you say that applications would standardize players, though perhaps this would actually help. From my personal experiences, servers (of this size and larger) who have applications create a larger, equally if not more, dedicated staff team that moderate the server at all times. Applications, again from experience of other servers, speed up the application process. Those that may be quieter than others, who sit in the corner, so to say, get a chance to put themselves out in the open a bit more. Show who they really are to the staff team. This can also help improve the time zoning issues. I know the team is wide and varied of where you all live, though you can't always see possible potential staff. I'm sure a lot of potential staff members are, essentially, overlooked due to not being on at the same time as staff. Applications are generally a factor toward removal of any of these issues.  
And to you Vauld. If you're trying suggesting I want staff, I really don't. I'm not going to deny for a long time I have, but at this current time I don't enjoy Garry's Mod as much as I did and don't have as much time to spend on video games as I used to.

Contrary to popular belief, a larger team is more detrimental to productivity. Each staff member must provide their input on decisions made internally unless they've given notice of inactivity for whatever reason. More admins would also mean having to wait more time to come to a final decision. Believe it or not, SAs don't run the team solo, the team work as a team and that's why it works.
A TeamSpeak meeting we had a few weeks ago:
[Image: IkZu5zp.png]
I fully understand the need for server moderation, however, regardless of how many people you promote, there will never be an admin on 24/7 despite our efforts. All we can do is continue to make the best of what we can with what we have; a professional and effective team.

You can still easily work together as a team even if applications are involved. I don't see how hand-picking people can make your teamwork better?

If you think that by having more moderators (which isn't really intended in this thread), would slow down the process of a team meeting, then why not change the things up a bit? Then all of those who had any input could then say something, instead of everybody NEEDS to say something.

Applications will drop our standards; fact. I was addressing administration rather than server moderation. Every staff member is entitled to their say on what goes on unless it comes down to financial stuff, etc.

From what I gather Mist, you want more server moderation. We're pretty active to be fair and in comparison to previous teams, we're doing great. If an admin isn't present and you see a rule violation, post a player report if you would like to do so.

[Faustie]

Unless it's on a very specific issue in which we have someone knowledgeable filling that role, every admin is entitled their say on a topic. More admins means more opinions, which is good to a certain extent, but it also often takes longer for us to discuss them and reach a decision; 10 admins can reach a decision within a day, but 20 might take up to a week. Sometimes, one opposing view means that we have to reset the entire vote and it leads to further delays. While this isn't necessarily bad, as more conflicting opinions means that we can see each individual issue from more angles and reach a better end decision, it can drastically slow things down.

An alternative to this is granting a few individual staff members more power (for example, the SAs) but that creates a huge array of problems. It's likely to cause a small divide between the regular team and SAs, lead to less transparency, lessen the value of admin opinions, and so on. It's not an option; we tried that before with the old SA teams and in the end it turned out to be catastrophic. So we can't manage a significantly larger team that way. So while a larger team might mean a little more coverage, it also slows down discussion and there aren't many good ways to compensate for that while still retaining the value of each individual admin, which is vital - if an admin feels as though his opinion is worthless, we have a major problem.

I've spoken about why we try and keep some limit on team size, but not about how we select candidates. Applications would possibly give certain players more exposure and might present to us a few new candidates we were unaware of, but there are very valid arguments against this system, too. Applications remove a large part of the human element from the process, and it may lead to admins giving their judgement solely based on the applicant's credentials and on how skilled a word-smith the applicant is. It's also likely that applicants will act differently once they've posted an application, whereas when we hand-pick candidates we can investigate both their good and bad sides without the candidate even being aware.

In short, while more exposure for potential candidates is a good thing and there are clear benefits to it, there are also many downsides, some in part due to the application process. As such, I do not think that an application process is a good idea. If someone has other suggestions, I'd be interested in hearing them.

[SirCrow]

The problem with the current system (imo) is that it gives people who are friends with admins a huge advantage. I'm not saying that anyones being biased at all, its just a fact that you are much more likely to be noticed and put forward.

I'm not saying the current system is bad at all, it works well, I just think a hidden application system (only viewable by staff) would be a useful addition and would allow players to make themselves known.

I was friends with maybe one staff member when I was promoted. The admin who recommended me for promotion, I rarely talked to. Show you know what you're doing, don't start problems, be mature, have good activity, ect, ect. Sure, friends of multiple admins are going to have an advantage, but at the same time, if they're friends with the admins, they're going to know the rules, they're going to be active.