Jordy Unban Request - A mistake from me.

[equal]

I was a witness.

First off, the "I have found a more experienced applicant" reason is absolutely bullshit in this specific case. Brennan with 800 hours and 17 RP Points were demote and Olaf with 700 hours and 20 RP Points were demoted. How are these two individuals not experienced enough? Do you have a 1000+ hour requirement when you are Sergeant, if so, that's a tad excessive.

You admitted to Obay that you demoted them purely for OOC reasons, being that you felt you were more entitled to the job than Brennan and Olaf, because you had spend 8 hours, completely volunteerly I might add, trying to prepare and fix the SWAT Van so it could be good to go for the live servers.

With that said, I have absolutely no clue as to why this reason is even brought up when it isn't relevant?

Secondly, I talked with Supervising Administrator, Fultzy. He told me that demoting people for "lack of experience" is considered metagaming, as the information you use is acquired from the TAB Menu which is OOC, and you use that OOC information to demote someone IC. Not to mention the fact that it is also Powergaming like Ikaros stated in your ban reason.

The term powergaming explained:

Powergaming is when you misuse roleplay actions in an attempt to force a RP to take a certain direction, or when you attempt to force another action on a player or dictate their actions. This is banned because it’s detrimental to RP, and makes the server a lot less fun for people who have to suffer the actions of a powergamer.

Well this was just my two cents.

[Jordy]

I'm also adding this to my UBR: http://www.fearlessrp.net/showthread.php...hostk1ll3r please explain this then.

[Image: akYcJs6.png]
surely this applies to SWAT as well.

[BasicallyMental]

I was a witness.

First off, the "I have found a more experienced applicant" reason is absolutely bullshit in this specific case. Brennan with 800 hours and 17 RP Points were demote and Olaf with 700 hours and 20 RP Points were demoted. How are these two individuals not experienced enough? Do you have a 1000+ hour requirement when you are Sergeant, if so, that's a tad excessive.

You admitted to Obay that you demoted them purely for OOC reasons, being that you felt you were more entitled to the job than Brennan and Olaf, because you had spend 8 hours, completely volunteerly I might add, trying to prepare and fix the SWAT Van so it could be good to go for the live servers.

With that said, I have absolutely no clue as to why this reason is even brought up when it isn't relevant?

Secondly, I talked with Supervising Administrator, Fultzy. He told me that demoting people for "lack of experience" is considered metagaming, as the information you use is acquired from the TAB Menu which is OOC, and you use that OOC information to demote someone IC. Not to mention the fact that it is also Powergaming like Ikaros stated in your ban reason.

The term powergaming explained:

Powergaming is when you misuse roleplay actions in an attempt to force a RP to take a certain direction, or when you attempt to force another action on a player or dictate their actions. This is banned because it’s detrimental to RP, and makes the server a lot less fun for people who have to suffer the actions of a powergamer.

Well this was just my two cents.

Sorry to interupt you here bud, but not at any point where you DIRECTLY involved with this. You are not on the Involved list so therefore you are nothing to do with it. Don't post on something that is nothing to do with you.

[equal]

It's a year old? The rules and the community has changed since. Hence why some of the administrators you contacted who didn't answer in your favor and isn't listed in this thread, said "not anymore".

[Jordy]

It's a year old? The rules and the community has changed since. Hence why some of the administrators you contacted who didn't answer in your favor and isn't listed in this thread, said "not anymore".

If the rules have 'changed' then where is that rule that backs up your point?

[Blurr]

Equal the whole time you were stood under the bank listening to their conversation. You are hardly involved here, because you saw it take place on the server doesn't mean you are "involved"

[Fultz]

You demoted them because you said they were not experienced.

This is what powergaming is. Powergaming is whenever you take advantage of a roleplay scenario.

Since you did not have any contact with either player before you demoted them, there is no possible way that you had the knowledge that either player was inexperienced. You even used the argument with Nacreas that since you are SRU Sergeant, you know everything about your team. That is in fact powergaming.

You forced both the players into a roleplay where there are considered inexperienced so you would  be able to demote them. If they say had their jobs as "SRU - Rookie" etc or had confrontation with you that would distinguish them as inexperienced, this would not be an issue because you did not force them into the situation. However, this is not what happened. You demoted them for the reason that they were inexperienced with no background context of them being inexperienced. Which then results in metagaming and powergaming.

[Enzyme]

I personally feel that it's unfair to exlude someone from an RP by demoting them for a job when they haven't done anything wrong. We've punished for "invalid reason to demote someone" before and it's still something that we enforce that today. As I see it; if the fella hadn't done anything ICly for you to have a reason to demote him, you shouldn't get rid of him like that. It's unfair to players who are new to the servers and/or who don't have any "friends" of their own to play with.

[Jordy]

My mistakes for the powergaming however this needs to be more visible on the rules section as it only states /mes as power gaming for example /me cuts off mans head and he dies. Powergaming is something which is a blurr to most members and is too me even at this amount of hours. looking through the day to day bans over the past 2 weeks, not one person besides from me is banned for powergaming because of it not being acknowledged.
As for the 'arguement' with Nacreas, I wouldn't call it argueing more of a disagree to agree discussion.
Although due to Wood being a developer and him saying he's seen admins do it before makes me influenced into doing it anyway as he would know more about that due to him being apart of the staff team.
When I got banned I was really confused as Obay said "you're not getting banned, you're not getting blacklisted" and let me off with a warning then approximately 5 minutes later Ikaros bans me after it has already been dealt with by another administrator.

[Burnett]

I agree with Jordy here. We need clear guidelines on what powergaming/metgaming actually is. I demoted a lot of people for the exact same reason (/demote 'Not experienced enough') yet I still haven't received any punishment. If that's against the rules, I must be punished aswell as many other people. We either set a strict and clear ruling on this or drop it. Doesn't look fair to me, honestly.