The Pulse: Community Catch Up | 2WC 17 Apr
#1
Bonjour,

We've had continued updates on the DB schema, with updates to the logs, and fixes to web services from the bans change, and continued progress on the inventory refactor.

One of the major changes we've had is an update to the way our documentation is generated, allowing searches, better state support, and more.

Merged Pull Requests:
  • Updated Derma Skin - An update to the derma (UI) skin, making it easier to have a consistent theme throughout the UI.
  • Settings Menu / System - A single point of call for client settings, as opposed to the ~3 used currently.
  • Moving small items from addons to gamemode - The gamemode repository is easier to update, deploy and test, so we've moved a couple of small addons into the gamemode.

Active Branches:
  • inventory-refactor
  • schema/logs
  • Web: fix/bans
  • docttest: master

For CityRP Main, we've had 2 people changing 11,354 lines in 132 files, across 44 commits.
For Web, 1 person changed 43 lines in 1 file across 1 commit.
Yours
Doctor Internet;

Developer, Systems Operator,
Data Protection Officer, Business Advisor,
Server Administrator, Community Moderator
The following 8 users Like Doctor Internet's post:
  • Wolven, TheSiphon, gin, EAGLE:), Boonan, Edned, mintblackbeard, VIVZZ
#2
I have been a supporter of this management team and had trust that you guys actually get forward. I do understand that changes take time and I am sure many will agree. However.. it is truly sad to see what has happened in those 6 months. I do not understand why you guys are still working on it. I would suggest to hand over the server to someone who actually has time to work on it. These updates are poor and you guys can’t catch the community‘s attention anymore. I totally agree to Jan. I think we came to a point in which hope has actually fallen. I know it’s hard to create a new FL for the Community.. or go back to an old version. You haven’t given the Community the chance to see your vision. We haven’t been informed of new content coming to the server or something special that we could be waiting for. - And if you tell me that the inventory refactor is the biggest update of all the upcoming things.. then I am sad and disappointed
The following 3 users Like RoCKy's post:
  • Lewwings, Tails59, aDisabledDeer
#3
I am trying very hard to respond sincerely in this case, but it is difficult when the posts in this thread more or less equate to "pollux bad" and "devs not working hard enough!!"

Again, I have to make everyone here aware that the dev team are volunteers, and you are always free to start your own gmod community
[Image: cSmfz9P.png]
#4
(05-04-2023, 07:54 PM)gin Wrote: I am trying very hard to respond sincerely in this case, but it is difficult when the posts in this thread more or less equate to "pollux bad" and "devs not working hard enough!!"

Again, I have to make everyone here aware that the dev team are volunteers, and you are always free to start your own gmod community

1) It is absolutely correct that the dev team are volunteers. Hence, it would indeed be improper to expect them to commit to it full-time. However, I think when people bring up the "staff are volunteers!" argument they forget one detail: Nobody forced them to volunteer. If you do volunteer, then you kind of do have a responsibility to provide the services of that role you volunteered for.

This is like volunteering at, say, a chess club, doing absolutely nothing in said club and complaining that you are but a volunteer when people point your inactivity out. If you don't have the time to commit to whatever project you volunteered for, simply don't volunteer. Or resign.

2) If the sole argument you can bring to keep people is "Oh well? Then start your own community" then that means FL already is dead. To use the chess analogy above - I wouldn't expect a chess team who starts telling its members they are "free to start a new one" upon complaints to last much longer.

I respect the work devs and staff in general put into this, mind you. I simply don't like how people point out the benefits of volunteerism (AKA not treating it as seriously as a full-time job) but not the responsibilities thereof. And to address the thread itself - I'm sure developers put their hearts and a lot of effort into this update, but I hope they also realise this is rather demoralising to the same community that has been awaiting proper, actual progress for 6 months.
[Image: 7EmE7CZ.png]
Have I helped you or am I friendly?
+rep
The following 5 users Like Archer's post:
  • RoCKy, Lewwings, Boonan, Self, aDisabledDeer
#5
(05-04-2023, 08:01 PM)Archer Wrote:
(05-04-2023, 07:54 PM)gin Wrote: I am trying very hard to respond sincerely in this case, but it is difficult when the posts in this thread more or less equate to "pollux bad" and "devs not working hard enough!!"

Again, I have to make everyone here aware that the dev team are volunteers, and you are always free to start your own gmod community

1) It is absolutely correct that the dev team are volunteers. Hence, it would indeed be improper to expect them to commit to it full-time. However, I think when people bring up the "staff are volunteers!" argument they forget one detail: Nobody forced them to volunteer. If you do volunteer, then you kind of do have a responsibility to provide the services of that role you volunteered for.

This is like volunteering at, say, a chess club, doing absolutely nothing in said club and complaining that you are but a volunteer when people point your inactivity out. If you don't have the time to commit to whatever project you volunteered for, simply don't volunteer. Or resign.

2) If the sole argument you can bring to keep people is "Oh well? Then start your own community" then that means FL already is dead. To use the chess analogy above - I wouldn't expect a chess team who starts telling its members they are "free to start a new one" upon complaints to last much longer.

I respect the work devs and staff in general put into this, mind you. I simply don't like how people point out the benefits of volunteerism (AKA not treating it as seriously as a full-time job) but not the responsibilities thereof. And to address the thread itself - I'm sure developers put their hearts and a lot of effort into this update, but I hope they also realise this is rather demoralising to the same community that has been awaiting proper, actual progress for 6 months.

Absolutely, we understand that the development team are volunteers and we appreciate their efforts. However, we also agree that volunteers have a responsibility to fulfill the duties of their role, and if they can't commit the time required, they should either step up or step down.

Furthermore, we do acknowledge that community members have been waiting for a long time for actual progress, and we think it's fair for them to express their concerns. That being said, we encourage anyone who has the skills and passion to join the team and help with the development process.

Jokes aside, I appreciate the nuanced take.
[Image: cSmfz9P.png]
The following 1 user Likes gin's post:
  • Archer
#6
Somewhat odd that several people who haven't played in years decided to post the same thing at the same time.

I'll still quickly address it though. FL was already dead when we took it, and we took it to try and revive it from being dead. While it's taking ages and we wanted to be up by now, it's not abandoned and still in progress as we've clearly shown in these small update posts. I know that we've been way slower than predicted, but we've also not given up on it. The downtime is not what killed it, FL was dead for several months before we took it down. Even if we kept it up, it'd just be an empty server as it was before we took it down.

We haven't compromised on the list of stuff we want to get done as there is no point in trying to half-ass a re-launch. It's not even like there's no work being done. While there hasn't been much to "show", there's very clearly been a lot of progress made since the last dev blog. It's why Internet started doing these smaller "pulse" posts, as there is still obvious progress. If you feel like we're taking too long, we know and agree with you. I know we've missed the dates we've stated, I'm probably more annoyed about it than all of you. Ultimately, all we can do is keep trying to get as much progress done as possible each week.

I'm not going to make any promises like last time as that didn't go well, but at minimum these posts will be made every two weeks to show any progress. While not great, it's much better than silence until the next dev blog.
Pollux
Fearless Management
bork
__________________________________________________________________
The following 1 user Likes Pollux's post:
  • mintblackbeard
#7
(05-04-2023, 05:58 PM)RoCKy Wrote: I have been a supporter of this management team and had trust that you guys actually get forward. I do understand that changes take time and I am sure many will agree. However.. it is truly sad to see what has happened in those 6 months. I do not understand why you guys are still working on it. I would suggest to hand over the server to someone who actually has time to work on it. These updates are poor and you guys can’t catch the community‘s attention anymore. I totally agree to Jan. I think we came to a point in which hope has actually fallen. I know it’s hard to create a new FL for the Community.. or go back to an old version. You haven’t given the Community the chance to see your vision. We haven’t been informed of new content coming to the server or something special that we could be waiting for. - And if you tell me that the inventory refactor is the biggest update of all the upcoming things.. then I am sad and disappointed

Rocky, I've already spoken to you in DMs not too long ago so this is a bit confusing considering I directly address some of the things you're saying now. Everything we're working on is not a secret, we've talked about it in detail and at length before we even started. The progress we've made in the last 6 months is also significantly better than the 6 months before that. I think a lot of people are forgetting that FL was completely dead before we took over. We knew it'd be a revival attempt from almost 0, and we're treating it as exactly that.

(05-04-2023, 08:01 PM)Archer Wrote:
(05-04-2023, 07:54 PM)gin Wrote: I am trying very hard to respond sincerely in this case, but it is difficult when the posts in this thread more or less equate to "pollux bad" and "devs not working hard enough!!"

Again, I have to make everyone here aware that the dev team are volunteers, and you are always free to start your own gmod community

1) It is absolutely correct that the dev team are volunteers. Hence, it would indeed be improper to expect them to commit to it full-time. However, I think when people bring up the "staff are volunteers!" argument they forget one detail: Nobody forced them to volunteer. If you do volunteer, then you kind of do have a responsibility to provide the services of that role you volunteered for.

This is like volunteering at, say, a chess club, doing absolutely nothing in said club and complaining that you are but a volunteer when people point your inactivity out. If you don't have the time to commit to whatever project you volunteered for, simply don't volunteer. Or resign.

2) If the sole argument you can bring to keep people is "Oh well? Then start your own community" then that means FL already is dead. To use the chess analogy above - I wouldn't expect a chess team who starts telling its members they are "free to start a new one" upon complaints to last much longer.

I respect the work devs and staff in general put into this, mind you. I simply don't like how people point out the benefits of volunteerism (AKA not treating it as seriously as a full-time job) but not the responsibilities thereof. And to address the thread itself - I'm sure developers put their hearts and a lot of effort into this update, but I hope they also realise this is rather demoralising to the same community that has been awaiting proper, actual progress for 6 months.

I don't get the "no proper progress for 6 months" bit at all, as we've very clearly shown a lot of progress? You are also right, FL is already dead and was for a while before we took it. This is a revival attempt, not a regular big update. That's why we're putting so much work into it and also why we're taking our time. Again, I think a lot are forgetting that we only took the servers down because no one was on for several months anyway. The attempt last summer was good, but it's clear we need to 10x that to actually be sustainable for any meaningful time.
Pollux
Fearless Management
bork
__________________________________________________________________
The following 2 users Like Pollux's post:
  • Archer, Boonan
#8
lol work harder devs, fucking sick of it
The following 3 users Like User 19014's post:
  • Boonan, Equinox, Pollux
#9
(05-04-2023, 08:31 PM)Pollux Wrote:
(05-04-2023, 05:58 PM)RoCKy Wrote: I have been a supporter of this management team and had trust that you guys actually get forward. I do understand that changes take time and I am sure many will agree. However.. it is truly sad to see what has happened in those 6 months. I do not understand why you guys are still working on it. I would suggest to hand over the server to someone who actually has time to work on it. These updates are poor and you guys can’t catch the community‘s attention anymore. I totally agree to Jan. I think we came to a point in which hope has actually fallen. I know it’s hard to create a new FL for the Community.. or go back to an old version. You haven’t given the Community the chance to see your vision. We haven’t been informed of new content coming to the server or something special that we could be waiting for. - And if you tell me that the inventory refactor is the biggest update of all the upcoming things.. then I am sad and disappointed

Rocky, I've already spoken to you in DMs not too long ago so this is a bit confusing considering I directly address some of the things you're saying now. Everything we're working on is not a secret, we've talked about it in detail and at length before we even started. The progress we've made in the last 6 months is also significantly better than the 6 months before that. I think a lot of people are forgetting that FL was completely dead before we took over. We knew it'd be a revival attempt from almost 0, and we're treating it as exactly that.

(05-04-2023, 08:01 PM)Archer Wrote:
(05-04-2023, 07:54 PM)gin Wrote: I am trying very hard to respond sincerely in this case, but it is difficult when the posts in this thread more or less equate to "pollux bad" and "devs not working hard enough!!"

Again, I have to make everyone here aware that the dev team are volunteers, and you are always free to start your own gmod community

1) It is absolutely correct that the dev team are volunteers. Hence, it would indeed be improper to expect them to commit to it full-time. However, I think when people bring up the "staff are volunteers!" argument they forget one detail: Nobody forced them to volunteer. If you do volunteer, then you kind of do have a responsibility to provide the services of that role you volunteered for.

This is like volunteering at, say, a chess club, doing absolutely nothing in said club and complaining that you are but a volunteer when people point your inactivity out. If you don't have the time to commit to whatever project you volunteered for, simply don't volunteer. Or resign.

2) If the sole argument you can bring to keep people is "Oh well? Then start your own community" then that means FL already is dead. To use the chess analogy above - I wouldn't expect a chess team who starts telling its members they are "free to start a new one" upon complaints to last much longer.

I respect the work devs and staff in general put into this, mind you. I simply don't like how people point out the benefits of volunteerism (AKA not treating it as seriously as a full-time job) but not the responsibilities thereof. And to address the thread itself - I'm sure developers put their hearts and a lot of effort into this update, but I hope they also realise this is rather demoralising to the same community that has been awaiting proper, actual progress for 6 months.

I don't get the "no proper progress for 6 months" bit at all, as we've very clearly shown a lot of progress? You are also right, FL is already dead and was for a while before we took it. This is a revival attempt, not a regular big update. That's why we're putting so much work into it and also why we're taking our time. Again, I think a lot are forgetting that we only took the servers down because no one was on for several months anyway. The attempt last summer was good, but it's clear we need to 10x that to actually be sustainable for any meaningful time.


^^
Hello Pollux…

I do understand what you are trying to tell me. I know that if we would reopen the server now.. it wouldn’t be a good decision either. I was not saying that you guys aren’t open to the community. You just clearly don’t know (til now) how you guys plan to reopen the server. Since there isnt anything the community can wait for I am pretty sure that being done with most of the development process is nowhere near. The community doesn’t have a vision and the same goes to the staff team/management team. I know it’s hard to find dedicated developers. And as Archer said… You are volunteers who have decided to support and help the server. If you can not match up with this then the Management Team has to find solutions that things run faster and find/contact others who are willing to help.
[Image: WbmV7IO.mp4]
#10
(05-04-2023, 08:56 PM)RoCKy Wrote:
(05-04-2023, 08:31 PM)Pollux Wrote:
(05-04-2023, 05:58 PM)RoCKy Wrote: I have been a supporter of this management team and had trust that you guys actually get forward. I do understand that changes take time and I am sure many will agree. However.. it is truly sad to see what has happened in those 6 months. I do not understand why you guys are still working on it. I would suggest to hand over the server to someone who actually has time to work on it. These updates are poor and you guys can’t catch the community‘s attention anymore. I totally agree to Jan. I think we came to a point in which hope has actually fallen. I know it’s hard to create a new FL for the Community.. or go back to an old version. You haven’t given the Community the chance to see your vision. We haven’t been informed of new content coming to the server or something special that we could be waiting for. - And if you tell me that the inventory refactor is the biggest update of all the upcoming things.. then I am sad and disappointed

Rocky, I've already spoken to you in DMs not too long ago so this is a bit confusing considering I directly address some of the things you're saying now. Everything we're working on is not a secret, we've talked about it in detail and at length before we even started. The progress we've made in the last 6 months is also significantly better than the 6 months before that. I think a lot of people are forgetting that FL was completely dead before we took over. We knew it'd be a revival attempt from almost 0, and we're treating it as exactly that.


I don't get the "no proper progress for 6 months" bit at all, as we've very clearly shown a lot of progress? You are also right, FL is already dead and was for a while before we took it. This is a revival attempt, not a regular big update. That's why we're putting so much work into it and also why we're taking our time. Again, I think a lot are forgetting that we only took the servers down because no one was on for several months anyway. The attempt last summer was good, but it's clear we need to 10x that to actually be sustainable for any meaningful time.


^^
Hello Pollux…

I do understand what you are trying to tell me. I know that if we would reopen the server now.. it wouldn’t be a good decision either. I was not saying that you guys aren’t open to the community. You just clearly don’t know (til now) how you guys plan to reopen the server. Since there isnt anything the community can wait for I am pretty sure that being done with most of the development process is nowhere near. The community doesn’t have a vision and the same goes to the staff team/management team. I know it’s hard to find dedicated developers. And as Archer said… You are volunteers who have decided to support and help the server. If you can not match up with this then the Management Team has to find solutions that things run faster and find/contact others who are willing to help.

I still very much disagree, I've always been very vocal about my vision for FL for years now. We've also made many posts talking about our plan at this point, I doubt there's much more we can say about it that'll be new information. I don't think there has ever been a lack of ideas or plans from the team, it's always a resource issue with getting them done. I'm also not hiring people to work on the gamemode. I don't want FL to be about making up all the money spent and spending the thousands required just to make it a little bit quicker is a terrible idea.

We're working very hard on everything, as shown by the record number of changes being made. There has literally been more changes in the last three months than there has been in the last few years of FL being up. I know progress has been slow but that's also far from the "nothing at all" some are suggesting. If the progress stops and it becomes obvious there's little hope of our plan getting done, then we'll give it up. For now all I can do now is try make sure we make good, regular progress as this is likely the final attempt for FLs Gmod CityRP server.
Pollux
Fearless Management
bork
__________________________________________________________________


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)