Return of classic features to the gamemode

[Pollux]

I understand if people are nostalgic, however, it simply isn't a good strategy for more than a week. We've played on the nostalgic factor many, many times in the past and we've always come to the same conclusion - that it only lasts about a week before people want it gone. Things change for a reason, and many of those who played in the past won't come back just because we've added a few old features due to them simply lacking the free time they once had when younger. Players didn't stop playing FL because of changes over the years, they stopped playing because they got jobs and other real life commitments that means they no longer have all day to spend on FL. One of the biggest things we've obviously failed at is attracting new players to replace those who've left, reverting back doesn't help with that.

There will be an early 2015 gamemode event at some point which should give people the nostalgia trip they want, but it's not intended to be a permanent thing because we know it doesn't last long. We're also not going to go older than 2015 as we simply don't have anything older that works and is authentic.

you've spent half your time as management telling what you won't do. what are you planning to do?

Sadly, like many of us, Pollux is human. And the funny thing about that is to come up with a well-thought-out plan, we need time. Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we just drop an updated based upon the voices of a vocal minority which heavily relied on nostalgia and is currently failing to bring back the older audience?

So what Pollux is saying is entirely correct if you look at the statistics. Clearly what we had isn't working, what we have isn't working - so maybe, just maybe we need more time to figure out what's next and if that will work.

I understand the whole Idea of the old map and update was to bring back the older players and allow for a more simpler. entertaining game mode. However, the change was made just a couple of days officially and it isn't right to already voice it as "Failing". A lot of the older players, myself included have full time jobs, relationships, kids, etc. now. I'd loved to join, and I will do so soon. Give us a chance before categorizing this as a failure. 

OT: I think you have a wonderful idea, Nac. It would be nice to see the simple stuff that just worked back then and really didn't need to be changed, implemented back. At the end of the day, there is nothing to lose. There is no "It could kill the player base" because there is no player base. 

I'd like to see literally just about everything from 2013-2016 FL back on the server. It was a much better time as well. 

In the future as well, we should really do something more than suggestions to approve and implemented an update to the game mode. I don't understand how to elaborate on this, but just an extra measure to ensure the community actually wants the update so every form of player (Aggressive and passive) are satisfied.

FLs survival depends on people with a lot of free time. The reason we had a full server every day earlier this year was because people joined daily and played on it for many hours a day. FL can't survive if it only caters to people who can join for a few hours a week, which is what most nostalgic people fall into. I understand that many of you want to see the FL you knew years ago, but if it isn't what the active playerbase (the people who will join daily) want then it doesn't work. I think this is a key point many of you need to realise, especially if you haven't actively played in a few years. The playerbase has changed, very few players are still around that played many years ago so these nostalgic changes won't result in anything notable. We need to cater towards the newer playerbase, which means FL has to change from the server you once loved. If we're constantly stuck in the past, we'll never make any progress.

[Rossi]

I understand if people are nostalgic, however, it simply isn't a good strategy for more than a week. We've played on the nostalgic factor many, many times in the past and we've always come to the same conclusion - that it only lasts about a week before people want it gone. Things change for a reason, and many of those who played in the past won't come back just because we've added a few old features due to them simply lacking the free time they once had when younger. Players didn't stop playing FL because of changes over the years, they stopped playing because they got jobs and other real life commitments that means they no longer have all day to spend on FL. One of the biggest things we've obviously failed at is attracting new players to replace those who've left, reverting back doesn't help with that.

There will be an early 2015 gamemode event at some point which should give people the nostalgia trip they want, but it's not intended to be a permanent thing because we know it doesn't last long. We're also not going to go older than 2015 as we simply don't have anything older that works and is authentic.

you've spent half your time as management telling what you won't do. what are you planning to do?

Sadly, like many of us, Pollux is human. And the funny thing about that is to come up with a well-thought-out plan, we need time. Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we just drop an updated based upon the voices of a vocal minority which heavily relied on nostalgia and is currently failing to bring back the older audience?

So what Pollux is saying is entirely correct if you look at the statistics. Clearly what we had isn't working, what we have isn't working - so maybe, just maybe we need more time to figure out what's next and if that will work.

I understand the whole Idea of the old map and update was to bring back the older players and allow for a more simpler. entertaining game mode. However, the change was made just a couple of days officially and it isn't right to already voice it as "Failing". A lot of the older players, myself included have full time jobs, relationships, kids, etc. now. I'd loved to join, and I will do so soon. Give us a chance before categorizing this as a failure. 

OT: I think you have a wonderful idea, Nac. It would be nice to see the simple stuff that just worked back then and really didn't need to be changed, implemented back. At the end of the day, there is nothing to lose. There is no "It could kill the player base" because there is no player base. 

I'd like to see literally just about everything from 2013-2016 FL back on the server. It was a much better time as well. 

In the future as well, we should really do something more than suggestions to approve and implemented an update to the game mode. I don't understand how to elaborate on this, but just an extra measure to ensure the community actually wants the update so every form of player (Aggressive and passive) are satisfied.

FLs survival depends on people with a lot of free time. The reason we had a full server every day earlier this year was because people joined daily and played on it for many hours a day. FL can't survive if it only caters to people who can join for a few hours a week, which is what most nostalgic people fall into. I understand that many of you want to see the FL you knew years ago, but if it isn't what the active playerbase (the people who will join daily) want then it doesn't work. I think this is a key point many of you need to realise, especially if you haven't actively played in a few years. The playerbase has changed, very few players are still around that played many years ago so these nostalgic changes won't result in anything notable. We need to cater towards the newer playerbase, which means FL has to change from the server you once loved. If we're constantly stuck in the past, we'll never make any progress.

I understand

However, there is no active player base to cater towards. So you could focus on the new (future) coming players or the old ones. I will say though that there are a lot more members seeming to be interested in the old style and no new members on here saying otherwise 

I would like to think you all are doing something in terms of a ven diagram or something to think of ideas and if it’s the new players you’re going after, it would be nice to hear and see your ideas so us older players can get behind it and understand why you chose that direction!

[Pollux]

-snip-

-snip-

FLs survival depends on people with a lot of free time. The reason we had a full server every day earlier this year was because people joined daily and played on it for many hours a day. FL can't survive if it only caters to people who can join for a few hours a week, which is what most nostalgic people fall into. I understand that many of you want to see the FL you knew years ago, but if it isn't what the active playerbase (the people who will join daily) want then it doesn't work. I think this is a key point many of you need to realise, especially if you haven't actively played in a few years. The playerbase has changed, very few players are still around that played many years ago so these nostalgic changes won't result in anything notable. We need to cater towards the newer playerbase, which means FL has to change from the server you once loved. If we're constantly stuck in the past, we'll never make any progress.

I understand

However, there is no active player base to cater towards. So you could focus on the new (future) coming players or the old ones. I will say though that there are a lot more members seeming to be interested in the old style and no new members on here saying otherwise 

I would like to think you all are doing something in terms of a ven diagram or something to think of ideas and if it’s the new players you’re going after, it would be nice to hear and see your ideas so us older players can get behind it and understand why you chose that direction!

There's a difference between catering for players who will play daily and those who won't though, and right now it's clear we've done the latter. FLs concept is only fun when there's a lot of players on, so it's important we aim for what will bring the most players. There are still many people who check in on what's going on, the announcement post proves it - we had over 80 unique people watching the thread soon after it was posted. We had 149 unique people check out our discord last week. It doesn't make sense for me to talk about my personal plans until I can talk to the rest of management, however, we are planning a big change in direction which you should hear more about soon. The nostalgia approach clearly isn't going to work, so we're going to get on with planning for the future even if that means leaving the past behind.

[Vauld]

Just go full cops & robbers. Add heists, rework PD, dispatch, mafia perks, organized crime. Allow buyable properties long-term, turf wars between criminal orgs, faction wars and factions vs PD.

That's the core of the gamemode, that's what brings players. Make a cool roadmap to get people inspired and develop the roadmap.

You guys are spinning your tires going back and forth, try to innovate and think larger picture than farming or weapons changes. Roleplay will naturally occur when the above things occur. Lean into the fun parts of the gamemode. I have ideas and can try to help facilitate some of this, feel free to PM as always. (spoiler: no one is going to PM me)

[Joe Joe]

Just go full cops & robbers. Add heists, rework PD, dispatch, mafia perks, organized crime. Allow buyable properties long-term, turf wars between criminal orgs, faction wars and factions vs PD.

That's the core of the gamemode, that's what brings players. Make a cool roadmap to get people inspired and develop the roadmap.

You guys are spinning your tires going back and forth, try to innovate and think larger picture than farming or weapons changes. Roleplay will naturally occur when the above things occur. Lean into the fun parts of the gamemode. I have ideas and can try to help facilitate some of this, feel free to PM as always. (spoiler: no one is going to PM me)

Maybe I'm missing something but nothing you stated in the opening paragraph is part of the core gamemode. So I'm not sure how that's bringing players when it doesn't exist?

[Jan]

Just go full cops & robbers. Add heists, rework PD, dispatch, mafia perks, organized crime. Allow buyable properties long-term, turf wars between criminal orgs, faction wars and factions vs PD.

That's the core of the gamemode, that's what brings players. Make a cool roadmap to get people inspired and develop the roadmap.

You guys are spinning your tires going back and forth, try to innovate and think larger picture than farming or weapons changes. Roleplay will naturally occur when the above things occur. Lean into the fun parts of the gamemode. I have ideas and can try to help facilitate some of this, feel free to PM as always. (spoiler: no one is going to PM me)

Maybe I'm missing something but nothing you stated in the opening paragraph is part of the core gamemode. So I'm not sure how that's bringing players when it doesn't exist?

The core of the gamemode is cops vs. robbers, the things Vauld mentioned after that would improve that core. 

Back when it all started getting off the ground the main part has always been criminals vs. government (cops vs. robbers), the passiveRP was something extra so you can have a break from the shootouts/criminal stuff sometimes but absolutely not the main focus, since the majority likes a shootout every now and then. 

I actually think that the stuff Vauld mentioned is a great idea, especially since we've went back to more basic stuff and gladly scrapped some of the bad RPG elements.

[Archer]

If the "nostalgia" argument had indeed relied on nostalgia alone, then yes, it would be a very poor argument indeed.

However, there is a point to be made that what drives nostalgia - the cops versus robbers thing - is also what attracts people. The things people are nostalgic for also happen to be genuinely good gameplay.

[Pollux]

We're not turning cityrp into a cops and robbers server, if we did it'd be a spin-off secondary server as it's clearly not cityrp and never was the "core" of FL. There's always been many things to do on the server and people are going to tend to remember what they personally did, not what others did. While there are people who liked the shootout part, there's equally others who didn't. Using the past to determine what we should do also doesn't sound like a good idea. We have to balance both sides by going off the data we have, not personal feelings. We also have to go off what the current community likes, not the past.

As I said earlier it's clear this approach isn't working and wasn't well thought out. We're going back to the drawing board to figure out a new approach and we'll roll with that.

[Vauld]

You guys are so silly. The base gamemode was cops & robbers for the history of FL. When it started to branch into mainly Passive RP feature-building is when the server started to fall off. The thing that kept people on for hours was the endless battles between the President & Rebel/Mafia organizations. Someone would go dictator, do crazy stuff, the server would be poppin' with activity until the President was dethroned typically via shootout. Everything RP related was created from this main gameplay loop. Weapons shops, protection/turf warfare, bomb shelters, martial law, passive civilizations outside the city, etc.

The weapons were cheap, simple and easy to acquire, which made it easier to keep players on the server for an extended period of time with little to no ramp up time to get involved.

I actually think it's the core gameplay loop of the server that's kind of been beat down over the past few years.

Pollux I get your point that everyone frames things from their perspective but I was the one doing Passive RP during these times for the most part, it was just kind of how it was. Constant action.

I think I have an overarching issue with management (besides doc internet <3 I'm his #1 fan) being so resistant to involving the community in the actual ideation and "Drawing board" conversations. I just don't understand why there's still this huge wall between the dwindling playerbase and management.

You guys are going to gatekeep until there's no one but management left. And then who will you be gatekeeping against? Talk to any players who are willing to provide ideas or feedback, have actual conversations not pre-defined survey questions. Your biggest critics probably have the most to say - listen to them. Like even the comment: "As I said earlier it's clear this approach isn't working and wasn't well thought out. We're going back to the drawing board to figure out a new approach and we'll roll with that." comes across as really elitist imo. Like you've basically just stated "We're pulling the curtains again from the 12 active players and will come back with another approach"...

You have no idea what you're doing, just admit it and work with the community instead of trying to uphold this pseudo-professionalism/gatekeeping behavior that everyone currently displays. Not a single person has reached out to me or anyone else (that I've spoken to) who's offered help over the last 12 months. What are you trying to prove by not accepting input or ideas? Ya'll just shooting yourselves in the foot. Just my humble thoughts, I doubt anything will get through to the people at the top though.

[JT2017]

Just a thought, but what if the developers or whomever is working on the drawing board asks the community for a written paragraph of what made FearlessRP's server fun? Like depending on what is said, if detailed or not, could determine the avenues needed to take if they are possible. I already understand if this sounds like I am saying "Let's just think of the Good Days of 2015/2017 and those old nostalgia moments", but I'm trying to not go that route. So, just a thought I guess?