Fantastic rules and where to find them
(08-28-2022, 11:46 PM)RIC0H Wrote: (Not everyone uses the dark theme)

Glad you found the solution to your problem
Hey Doctor,
I am glad to see you taking the time to formulate your thoughts to some of the specific point mentioned in my OP and I would like to answer them in this reply.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: I'm not sure if this is just general advice, but this is already done. It's not skipped.

Yes, this is just general advice. I have no current inside into the management but wanted to mention it regardless as it is one of the crucial principles I wanted to convey with this thread: Rules alleviate symptoms. They do not cure illnesses.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: Yes and no.
A system to allow player trading should be added, and in fact, was added with the cash register. Unfortunately, that also decimated player interaction, one of the big issues brought up by players.

However, not every instance of scamming can be "lol dumbass player did dumb thing", and while Elden Ring is popular, I don't think responding to every player complaint with "git gud" promotes a positive environment.
Perhaps other people can give more thoughts here.

I unfortunately do not know anything about the cash register as I have never used it (or seen anyone ever use it), but there is not a lot of interaction in '/givemoney 20000' either, or is there?
And yes, every instance of a player doing a stupid thing can and should be responded accordingly in the most consequential manner possible so as not to induce even a hint of suggestion that it was not the victim's but entirely the scammer's fault.
I might be a little out of touch, but wasn't "git gud" a Dark Souls meme originally? You don't have to bully the player for getting himself scammed but letting his own mistakes slip through by constantly compensating them will not promote a more positive environment. It will promote a careless environment.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: This being two-fold here, firstly, from a player interaction standpoint, if players can't understand each-other, there almost no interaction, aside from killing each-other. Try RPing on a French language server as a monolingual English native, I'm sure you'll see the issue.

Secondly, from an administration perspective, using non-English languages makes it very easy to obscure rule-breaking activity, whatever it is, from staff. I wish this was hypothetical.

If players can't understand each other, then yes they would no interact as all communication fails (except communication understood virtually everywhere, namely sex and violence), however then there is also no point in this rule. If they don't speak english, then that rule won't make them magically be able to. If they can speak english, but just don't, then there is the issue that players will not talk when they do not want to.
As long as players have an incentive to communicate (e.g. they are buying something from another player) they will (if capable) converse in a mutually understood language (mostly english). French language RP servers use french as their shared language which isn't understood by everyone which is why communication as an english native fails. A rule on such a server forcing you to speak french would not have solved anything.
As for the hiding of rule breakage, this perfectly demonstrates a fault in game design by rules. In my reduction, there is no scenario in which a rule can be broken by saying something in another language.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: Why do other arrested players need to listen to micspam?

Because filthy criminals are the scum of the earth. On a more serious note, they can just mute the player, no? Every game with voice communication has this age old feature, fairly sure FL has it as well.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote:
(08-24-2022, 08:40 AM)Arkten Wrote: Alternatively you can force them to take therapyRP for their suicidal behaviour or similar. No need to make a rule out of this.
Forced how?

Step 1: Immobilise the target by surrounding it from all open sides. If necessary use a taser and/or tranquiliser.
Step 2: Handcuff the target and move them to a counselor (Luminess had Ash's Therapy if i remember correctly).
Step 3: ???
Step 4: RP profit

I find that to be a lot more beneficial to everyone involved than "@ admin to me. XYZ is trying to avoid RP by suicide" or the typical "See you on the forums Wink". Heck, even killing them adds more RP than admin intervention.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: Hardline agree for me personally, however, this is a serious shift towards serious RP, which quite a few people here say they don't want, or have even argued for the reverting of such changes.

Had another post about this before and most of the people agreed as well. The only downsides were Pollux mentioning that merchants would be even harder to find and Soul epically saying 'I think this is leaning more towards Serious RP. '

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: Perhaps this is more a preventative measure, considering the people who used to RP as animals, would also clog @ and post many PRs if they were arrested for it. Could it be done with a more serious community? Perhaps, but that requires having a more serious community.

I am all for a more serious community.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: The RP of "I used a random number generator on my computer that you can't see any have no way of verifying said you lost your 2$m bet. Everyone else though, with your 500$ bet? You won." There's no way of reclaiming lost money ingame, and the consequences for the scammer already end there, with extremely limited cross-session persistance. Perhaps if we described it as landing a player an enormous, unlosable advantage, you'd see it more favourably.

A fool who bets on a system he does not understand. Using non-ingame RNGs will be naturally shunned as no member can verify its validity. Whoever puts 2$m on a table oblivious about this deserves to be scammed, but I guess this is just an extension of our viewpoints about scamming.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: And we're now at a situation where the slain gangster's comrades come in to avenge their killers, ope and now the Police are here and ope you're back after you got killed and why don't we just go play CS:GO? The biggest point of this rule isn't equalising or fairness, but reducing the decent into TDM.

Isn't this how every raid on FL works or have I just always raided the wrong way? A reason for a raid will be found and if the groups are big enough it will continue for as long as both side's morale and resources let that happen. If a police officer gets killed, then he is back in the raid after 10 min anyway, due to being called in. Sometimes conflicts are drawn out to such an extent that organisations clash cross-sessions. It is not quite unrealistic anyways, so I don't quite get your point here.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: Because some materials look different, on different props, in different contexts, with different surroundings.
For example, a flashing, hot pink, reflective metal sheet might look out of place in a hospital, but on the floor of a disco, it wouldn't.

If it is my property, then I put there whatever I want bar IC laws. Instead of penalising bad construction via rules, keep promoting good builds via RPP.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: Government members and pass holders cannot use molotovs.
Breaches are required to be bought, so cannot be relied upon to be available.

Destruction work always costs money. But I'm willing to make the compromise of making players unable to spawn props in or move into a gamemode-vital area and leaving the rest to the president's ministry of building.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: Weight tool.

Horrible tool then. Limit or get rid of it.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: So we've got the issue where some aggressive RPers feel like they're targeted by admins, some feel as though rules have been added which are unfair to them, but we need to have an admin approve each time a build is placed?

Not when placed, but rather every time a build is transferred from build server to main. Saves a lot of waiting time when doing it this way instead of before every placement.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: To remove 1 rule, a rule which is pretty simple, "don't kill people for no reason", with some examples of good and bad reasons, we'd need to switch over to transient instead of permanent inventories, a huge change to a core system, essentially becoming a hyper-serious RP?
(Most serious RP servers only have PK'ing in certain situations)
If you get randomly killed, there's no Police online, you're away from the Police, or any number of different situations, the response is "fuck you, you lose, good day"?
Have I got that right?

Absolutely right.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: A map without elevators?
So no evocity map, as I'm pretty sure they all have elevators.

If it is really the elevator system's fault, then I guess there is nothing we can do. But if a mapper could replace the broken elevator with one you cannot shoot through, then that would be great. Considering there are custom FL maps in use right now this idea might not be that unthinkable anymore.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: Not everyone has a SWAT van, I don't think there are smoke, gas or HE grenades (I haven't played SWAT in a hot minute).

If you do not have the gear, do not expect to win.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote:
(08-24-2022, 08:40 AM)Arkten Wrote: Gov could even pass a law disallowing building/basing/living on rooftops due to the history of police failures this has meant.
Pass a law disallowing it because the Police can't raid it.
So the Police can do what, raid it?

(08-24-2022, 08:40 AM)Arkten Wrote: or the police could block entrance to such places entirely.
With the frozen props they don't have? Or are they going to station a cop outside each rooftop access permanently?

Yes, guarding areas you do not want someone to access a certain location for whatever reasons is how the world does it.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: [Image: Ag8COQFe8sjw.png]

[Image: Otx14xU.png]

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: This rule is in because cops wouldn't kill the dictator, and would just go along with the "breathing = arrest" laws which got added.
I'd agree if this was a serious RP community which could handle the responsibility of being a dictator, and upholding RP standards.

That's not the community we have.

(08-24-2022, 08:40 AM)Arkten Wrote: 5.3 ...

But they don't. Again, serious RP community.

Again, I am all for a more serious community.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: Why dictatorial?
Anyone can do anything they want, nothing stops SWAT from just killing everyone who goes President.
Perhaps that's the point, to have an environment where might makes right, instead of a semi-functional city.

I am not sure I fully understood your point. Obviously might does make right, which is why you want to watch out who you are granting weapon access to. If the SWAT kill the president every time someone takes the job, that effectively makes the SWAT president. Maybe the gamemode could reflect that reality a bit better than it currently does.

(08-29-2022, 01:39 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote:
(08-24-2022, 08:40 AM)Arkten Wrote: 5.10 No one has to follow any law. Not even the government and even less so some affiliate group. See the previous points for reference.
"rules", not "laws".

Semantics, considering I advocate for removing all government rules anyway.

That was a lot to go through, and I would like to thank you again for explaining your thoughts to these points in this detail. I am quite enjoying the different ideas and viewpoints offered here.
(09-14-2022, 09:47 AM)Arkten Wrote:
(08-28-2022, 11:46 PM)RIC0H Wrote: (Not everyone uses the dark theme)

Glad you found the solution to your problem

Yeah, the solution was to stop using fearless till they stop discriminating against the light people.

Not everyone here is a dark person, so maybe it's time for fearless to be a little more inclusive and use friendly colours that both light and dark people can view.

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