FL Survey 2022

[Bulldogg]

Clearly what is done so far isn't working, the server is clearly dead. Adding RPG on a moneyprinter shows how far this has went (Check my suggestion for more info).
"So reverting back to the old gamemode or undoing recent changes is just an insult to those who worked effortlessly on them."

I'll use an analogy here because I feel like I lost a couple of braincells after reading that.
Assume I am an engineer that created this product, but when people used it, it did not function properly; practically speaking. My customers informed me that this product does not function properly due to this and that. Do you believe I would listen and modify > undo it, or that I would see it as an insult regardless of my time spent? Actually, you don't have to respond because you already did.
Checkmate.

Difference being it does function properly? there are a few issues with contraband which has been made apparent by both the staff and members of the community and it will be altered accordingly once a healthy balance can be reached, the issue is it's one minor change that doesn't require a total revert of a adequate system which is what people are eluding to.

I'm speaking broadly, and it doesn't work correctly if you think deeply, which I hope you do. I'll give you a hint: it has something to do with time management.
You mention "minor issues", yet those minor issues sum up in the grand scheme.

But, please realize, just because a "recent change" has been implemented does not make it an insult to amend or undo it.

Completely reverting it back to its original state does, which is what many are stating to do, some aren't but a lot are? That was my point, it would be a waste of time, funds and the efforts of everyone who was involved. Nobody is saying it can't be changed as I stated previously, both the staff and community made it apparent that the reward for the new contra isn't great at all and I know when a healthy balance is reached it will be altered accordingly so it doesn't disrupt the rest of the dynamic economy and the future additions to it, so it then it doesn't become the one and only 'optimal' money making method. A partial issue for it is because some people will use that money method at off-peak hours, reaping the benefits from it and when everyone else goes on to do it, they actually lose money or make little profit - counters to prevent this has been drawn up upon and suggestions (they're approved now) were made by the community to give players insight to the 'optimal' money making methods.

Again I said it was a minor issue as it is, it is easily amendable and will 100% get done as many want it to be worth their time and not the laborious task it is currently.

End of the day feedback from the survey is critical and any feedback / comments even if they conflict with the ideas of some will always be taken into consideration - you've heard it countless times from Management but it's true. I for one agree with having a small map, potentially a reworked V2 if the majority of the community wants it, or another small map but a map that won't die out instantly because it was only chosen for nostalgia. I do prefer big maps but it just isn't viable in this current state, it all comes down to the needs of FL over the wants for FL, and the only way to find the results is through the community and going with the strong majority whilst making compromises to make both sides happy with the future and its changes.

Deleting the vast majority of the newer gamemode is an insult; modifying/undo'ing some of the recent changes is not an insult. However, I get your point and that you probably meant it in reverting it all/vast majority.
I'm well aware that some just wants to revert all back, but I do not think that's the correct approach. Long story short, as I mentioned in the "Let's Save FL" thread, it's a community effort, and you need to add value to the community, which is exactly what a survey accomplishes, it serves a purpose and creates new ground.

I think the current moneyprinter is slightly more than just a minor issue, due to it being a fairly big part of aggrp.
But again, as Pollux indicated, the mangement have been busy with other things and is now starting to pick up on things, which is totally fair.

By both sides, you're referring to the stubborn conservative playerbase vs the more progressive liberal playerbase.
Jokes aside, for many people, v2d is a legacy and honorable map with great success and has been there as far as I know from 2008-2016 as permanent, but if we have to face the truth; the map, like many other maps, does not work with low playercounts, so that's what it essentially comes down to, and I completely agree with you that it isn't viable or sustainable.

[Equinox]

V2D is by far not small, but the way it's built makes it ideal for the run-ins like someone said it already. Imagine you're spawning in and you want to go fishing. You're guaranteed to spawn in the middle of a group of people talking on the main street, several stores already open. You'll drive by connectivity that will most likely have a huge fence around it, filled with rebels, probably already getting raided by police. You'll most likely run into some people at radio house as well. Villas were always occupied with corleones and their beautiful dupes, sometimes even blocking villas tunnel and collecting tax for people that go fishing. Run-ins, run-ins and run-ins. This concept doesn't care if we're talking about 2014 people or 2021 people. And to reflect onto my previous post here, it's a difference if a new player spawns on V2D main street among stores and a group of people laughing at an admin sit above them, compared to spawning on SanRanevo where their first experience will be people speedrunning the salesman on their left, a single standalone gun dealer shop in middle of spawn and the rest of 20-30 people nowhere to be seen.

San Ranevo, V4 and other maps on the other hand... it's true that all the tunnels and different ways make it better to travel around, but even on full server these maps feel empty. Everyone is hiding in Izzies, farm barns, Oceanview/Bluefin doing their contraband and weed. The only successful Evocity map after V2 (for today's standards) is V5. Spawning in park going past Nexus you already have full view onto entire Main street (you just ran into 60% of city's population in less than a minute). The rest of the map is extremely open as well, easily to spot other people to RP with being either a mugger or police officer. This is why V5 was highly effective exactly a year ago. To recap what was going on at this point, the entire Alessi org was going on, the 'orgRP that everyone wants' was peaking back then with all the org wars, server had 30-40 people on at times, govRP active as well, you'd always have an active government, Alessi taking over farm area, teapot titheads in industrial, random people having standalone houses on connectivity doing farming, Jessixa's dupes in general stores, dictator in Nexus, ... When the school started, the playercount started dropping a bit like anticipated, and then after a while Evoside was introduced, which also died out after initial inrush of players. orgRP on it was not even close to being as good as the one we had on V5P.

Now obviously server's map is definitely not the core reason why professionally designed community like FL exercises less players than average darkRP server with only one dev who downloaded a bunch of workshop content to end up with a vaping batman using minigun to defend his base against cops, but it still makes a difference.

Obviously we shouldn't go back to V2D, because the map is fully retired for today's standards, but we also shouldn't be using maps like SanRanevo either because for some reason the map is a ghost town at 30+ people connected.

[Boonan]

Clearly what is done so far isn't working, the server is clearly dead. Adding RPG on a moneyprinter shows how far this has went (Check my suggestion for more info).
"So reverting back to the old gamemode or undoing recent changes is just an insult to those who worked effortlessly on them."

I'll use an analogy here because I feel like I lost a couple of braincells after reading that.
Assume I am an engineer that created this product, but when people used it, it did not function properly; practically speaking. My customers informed me that this product does not function properly due to this and that. Do you believe I would listen and modify > undo it, or that I would see it as an insult regardless of my time spent? Actually, you don't have to respond because you already did.
Checkmate.

Difference being it does function properly? there are a few issues with contraband which has been made apparent by both the staff and members of the community and it will be altered accordingly once a healthy balance can be reached, the issue is it's one minor change that doesn't require a total revert of a adequate system which is what people are eluding to.

I'm speaking broadly, and it doesn't work correctly if you think deeply, which I hope you do. I'll give you a hint: it has something to do with time management.
You mention "minor issues", yet those minor issues sum up in the grand scheme.

But, please realize, just because a "recent change" has been implemented does not make it an insult to amend or undo it.

Completely reverting it back to its original state does, which is what many are stating to do, some aren't but a lot are? That was my point, it would be a waste of time, funds and the efforts of everyone who was involved. Nobody is saying it can't be changed as I stated previously, both the staff and community made it apparent that the reward for the new contra isn't great at all and I know when a healthy balance is reached it will be altered accordingly so it doesn't disrupt the rest of the dynamic economy and the future additions to it, so it then it doesn't become the one and only 'optimal' money making method. A partial issue for it is because some people will use that money method at off-peak hours, reaping the benefits from it and when everyone else goes on to do it, they actually lose money or make little profit - counters to prevent this has been drawn up upon and suggestions (they're approved now) were made by the community to give players insight to the 'optimal' money making methods.

Again I said it was a minor issue as it is, it is easily amendable and will 100% get done as many want it to be worth their time and not the laborious task it is currently.

End of the day feedback from the survey is critical and any feedback / comments even if they conflict with the ideas of some will always be taken into consideration - you've heard it countless times from Management but it's true. I for one agree with having a small map, potentially a reworked V2 if the majority of the community wants it, or another small map but a map that won't die out instantly because it was only chosen for nostalgia. I do prefer big maps but it just isn't viable in this current state, it all comes down to the needs of FL over the wants for FL, and the only way to find the results is through the community and going with the strong majority whilst making compromises to make both sides happy with the future and its changes.

Deleting the vast majority of the newer gamemode is an insult; modifying/undo'ing some of the recent changes is not an insult. However, I get your point and that you probably meant it in reverting it all/vast majority.
I'm well aware that some just wants to revert all back, but I do not think that's the correct approach. Long story short, as I mentioned in the "Let's Save FL" thread, it's a community effort, and you need to add value to the community, which is exactly what a survey accomplishes, it serves a purpose and creates new ground.

I think the current moneyprinter is slightly more than just a minor issue, due to it being a fairly big part of aggrp.
But again, as Pollux indicated, the mangement have been busy with other things and is now starting to pick up on things, which is totally fair.

By both sides, you're referring to the stubborn conservative playerbase vs the more progressive liberal playerbase.
Jokes aside, for many people, v2d is a legacy and honorable map with great success and has been there as far as I know from 2008-2016 as permanent, but if we have to face the truth; the map, like many other maps, does not work with low playercounts, so that's what it essentially comes down to, and I completely agree with you that it isn't viable or sustainable.

Yeah I agree with you, changes should be made if necessary especially if the community believes that it is an issue - from what I've seen most people are okay with the new moneyprinters however once the survey results have been collected we will finally be able to get an accurate depiction on what is liked and what isn't. It is a shame that the older maps aren't viable in todays standard as Equinox put it as FL needs a smaller map which concentrates people in certain areas, it would be nice to have a map like V2D but reworked potentially with a Southside feel to it as Rossi said - I think that would be a good idea but again it's the time and resources to do it stacked up against how long FL can last like this.

[Nadrickk]

V2D is by far not small, but the way it's built makes it ideal for the run-ins like someone said it already. Imagine you're spawning in and you want to go fishing. You're guaranteed to spawn in the middle of a group of people talking on the main street, several stores already open. You'll drive by connectivity that will most likely have a huge fence around it, filled with rebels, probably already getting raided by police. You'll most likely run into some people at radio house as well. Villas were always occupied with corleones and their beautiful dupes, sometimes even blocking villas tunnel and collecting tax for people that go fishing. Run-ins, run-ins and run-ins. This concept doesn't care if we're talking about 2014 people or 2021 people. And to reflect onto my previous post here, it's a difference if a new player spawns on V2D main street among stores and a group of people laughing at an admin sit above them, compared to spawning on SanRanevo where their first experience will be people speedrunning the salesman on their left, a single standalone gun dealer shop in middle of spawn and the rest of 20-30 people nowhere to be seen.

San Ranevo, V4 and other maps on the other hand... it's true that all the tunnels and different ways make it better to travel around, but even on full server these maps feel empty. Everyone is hiding in Izzies, farm barns, Oceanview/Bluefin doing their contraband and weed. The only successful Evocity map after V2 (for today's standards) is V5. Spawning in park going past Nexus you already have full view onto entire Main street (you just ran into 60% of city's population in less than a minute). The rest of the map is extremely open as well, easily to spot other people to RP with being either a mugger or police officer. This is why V5 was highly effective exactly a year ago. To recap what was going on at this point, the entire Alessi org was going on, the 'orgRP that everyone wants' was peaking back then with all the org wars, server had 30-40 people on at times, govRP active as well, you'd always have an active government, Alessi taking over farm area, teapot titheads in industrial, random people having standalone houses on connectivity doing farming, Jessixa's dupes in general stores, dictator in Nexus, ... When the school started, the playercount started dropping a bit like anticipated, and then after a while Evoside was introduced, which also died out after initial inrush of players. orgRP on it was not even close to being as good as the one we had on V5P.

Now obviously server's map is definitely not the core reason why professionally designed community like FL exercises less players than average darkRP server with only one dev who downloaded a bunch of workshop content to end up with a vaping batman using minigun to defend his base against cops, but it still makes a difference.

Obviously we shouldn't go back to V2D, because the map is fully retired for today's standards, but we also shouldn't be using maps like SanRanevo either because for some reason the map is a ghost town at 30+ people connected.

Someone listen to this man ^

Basically what everyones been saying besides the staff team forever now, ever since Divey. We don't need a huge map, we need to feel there's other players. Interaction is much easier if there's a lesser distance... And RP oppertunities? It worked back then, it can work now too. You dont need more buildings etc, the entire point of Gmod RP is to use your fantasy, build, and create RP's. If you need presets, like buildings or a giant map, might aswell play FiveM

[Awestruck]

Littletown

[Doctor Internet]

I 100% understand that nostalgic would be gone quickly. However, I wasn't really talking about returning to nostalgic 2013-2014 game play. I was more so stating that I strongly believe there needs to be a smaller map due to the population on the servers not averaging above 15 normally. 

Wether you use V2D, littletown, or any other map, that's up to whichever the community or management decide. I said V2D because it was the only small map on the list to vote for. It's why large maps always work better for large communities. Having 75 players on V33 back then made it a ton of fun. But if you placed the server back on v33 (v4b1) at the moment with 15 people, it would be entirely boring like how it is now on San Ranevo.

I'll be honest here, I agree. A small map which promotes player interaction is good.

As far as the Semi-Serious and SeriousRP aspect go, it just needs to be decided upon quickly with a simple poll asking for Semi Serious, or for SeriousRP. Placing SeriousRP features all over the server, slowly isn't the best way to go in my opinion. As a new player, I would be confused when joining to see all of these addons/features and for it to be still considered a Semi-Serious community. It's best to release a large update for serious features if that's what was agreed upon on a poll, followed by changing the title to display SeriousRP

What is (semi-)serious RP?

If we're going by the word of our god prophet Soulripper, then semi-serious only relates to the way that items are spawned from F1, as opposed to being bought from static venders.

I don't believe that, but I feel as though this is a definition we need to clarify, since everyone has an idea in their head, and nobody knows what anyone else thinks.

Player Interaction is heavily needed and I did see it was addressed slightly in the survey.

Again, agreed. Most of the people who play the server are in one group or another, often to the point that you can see, when one player gets banned, you lose 2/3 other people.

RP points have worked back in the day to get people to RP more on that side, but now it's like they're becoming obsolete to players.

I think that's an issue inherent in the current RPP system, as they've always been described as super rare, for exceptional RP. As RP quality dropped, the standards didn't. If you look at the RPP page, a single page can be half a month or a month's worth of RPP.

Sad to see you are out of ideas and need to lean on the community after only 2 months

you admins need to listen to the community! stop being up in your ivory towers! we play, we should be asked our opinions!










no not like that

Its funny how all admins protect each other. You want us to do the survey but u won't listen anyway to the community so what is the point of this?

sorry i cant hear you over the sound of me protecting the admins

Clearly what is done so far isn't working, the server is clearly dead. Adding RPG on a moneyprinter shows how far this has went (Check my suggestion for more info).

The printer doesn't have RPG elements? It has upgrades, and you need to give it ink every like 2 hours?
That's less interaction than the old printer, where you had to hit E every 25 minutes at most.

[Rossi]

As far as the Semi-Serious and SeriousRP aspect go, it just needs to be decided upon quickly with a simple poll asking for Semi Serious, or for SeriousRP. Placing SeriousRP features all over the server, slowly isn't the best way to go in my opinion. As a new player, I would be confused when joining to see all of these addons/features and for it to be still considered a Semi-Serious community. It's best to release a large update for serious features if that's what was agreed upon on a poll, followed by changing the title to display SeriousRP

What is (semi-)serious RP?

If we're going by the word of our god prophet Soulripper, then semi-serious only relates to the way that items are spawned from F1, as opposed to being bought from static venders.

I don't believe that, but I feel as though this is a definition we need to clarify, since everyone has an idea in their head, and nobody knows what anyone else thinks.

Semi-Serious is a bump above DarkRP as it's meant to be taken more serious, but not serious enough where it feels like you're working another full time job. You can have nice features like FL has always had to make the game mode more entertaining, but when you start to introduce very, down to the very little detail type of updates to a current system, that's when the semi serious and serious begin to get fogged up.

F1 menu is semi-serious, you're correct. Vendors are all serious sides. But just because you have an F1 menu, doesn't mean you are, by definition not a serious rp community. As I have stated before, keep making the game mode a relaxed and fun game mode to play, not one where we have to figure out every little clue just to understand something and spend hours just to understand how a job works.

Once again, this is my opinion and it's subjective. Maybe others feel this way and they can add to it if they would like. If not, than I won't go on about it unless directly asked a question anymore. We all want the same thing, and that's to see FL come alive again. I rarely have free time anymore with work, but when I like to come online, it would be nice to see FL pushing forward and perfect for myself to waste a couple of hours having a good time.

[livkx]

some good points in here but tbh dont care i want v2d

[Nadrickk]

some good points in here but tbh dont care i want v2d

You can't, the staff team tells us we don't want it

[Doctor Internet]

some good points in here but tbh dont care i want v2d

You can't, the staff team tells us we don't want it

The staff team says no.
But the developers force things through.

Looks like we're at a Mexican standoff here.
Who wins?