FL Survey 2022

[Boonan]

I mean sure everyone loves to go back to a fan favourite and that clearly seems to be V2D but realistically how many of the OG players would actually come back to FL and play on V2D for more than one week, sure it would be a good initial boost for players but that's it, it would die off almost instantly as its old, quite old - people would get bored of the map and complain about wanting another map change which doesn't solve any issues it just complicated things especially if people are trying to do events etc. Then we'd be back to the same issue we have now, where people are tired and don't want to play as RP isn't really a thing anymore as their is lack of motivation to partake / create it on a grand scale which involves everyone apart from team joint events with weeks of prior planning etc.

This is why there has been an increase in RPG elements to the gamemode and it allows players to stay on and complete challenges / tasks whilst there isn't any RP going on, or the server is at off-peak hours and there is perhaps only 20 or so players on. Slowly progressing backwards to older elements of the gamemode would completely undo all of the work which has been done so far and it was positively received for the most part with the exception of the amount of money you get for contra for the amount of time it takes and how it takes away from interaction more than before. Things like MESKA is the right way forward. Although this wasn't typically FL's strongest point its something that has had to be done recently to revive the server and that's updates. Sure if this was pre 2019 you could get away with minimal updates (which is why many seem to consider FL as unique) / changes to an RP server but that clearly isn't the case anymore, especially in the CityRP gamemode. DarkRP servers get away with it because its just pvp essentially and that's all people care about on it, point and shoot - people don't get bored of that compared to a gamemode which requires actual RP to work properly due to its nature, yet here there is no incentive. So, FL has no choice but to move onwards, people can't keep clinging to the 'OG days' as a way to fix the issues the server has, it's impractical and simply won't work. It's clear that the uniqueness of FL was the players / community and not it's simplicity. That was years ago, people move on, there is zero point in clinging onto the false hope that it can go back to the 'OG days' sure we could get close to it but it won't ever be the same. So for those who are actually coming back it's great but it is again impractical to completely revert back to the 2017 gamemode or to undo the progress which has been made so far, so sure remember the OG days but don't let it blind you as the key to fixing the server, unfortunately it isn't, as we'd be faced with the same issue we had before EvoSide was released and the issues we also had a few weeks after EvoSide, which is far far worse than it is currently.

wow. That sounds like a whole lot of caring for the old player base and not the issue at hand. Bringing in and retaining new players. For someone who just joined last year I would expect you to know that. Clearly not. 

Use your head. As a new player (think like the masses who play FL not like yourself) what are the pros and cons?

pros: unique rp experience

cons: awful frames, abandoned city, whole playerbase grouped away from everyone, monetary gap between old players and the new one, I can keep going. 

Fix those negatives and you have a start. Instead you are blabbering about making fl a rpg. Sounds almost as engaging as mining. Keep up the good ideas.

Edit: also great to see another survey. Always productive as ever. Sad to see you are out of ideas and need to lean on the community after only 2 months

People are making out that the old player base is the issue but it clearly isn't, its all well and good typing this and that on threads saying what 'needs to be done' as they believe they're correct purely out of experience, yet that always isn't the case as they are out of the loop and most likely have other more important things in their life over FL, which is just life, a Garry's Mod RP server shouldn't take precedence over real life, and even if the changes are made which they insist will fix the server they only join for a few days then disappear into the abys again, this isn't a one off thing either its a occurring pattern. So reverting back to the old gamemode or undoing recent changes is just an insult to those who worked effortlessly on them.

You mention about bringing in new players well, adding RPG elements will do it (as a knew player I know), a new player would easily take another server due over FL (seen by our player count compared to literally every other 'RP server') as they already have RPG elements as their foundation to their gamemode, we don't, which is why the changes are necessary and surprise surprise they've received a huge amount of support. This is because it allows a user to do stuff when there is no RP going on, and what do you know, RP isn't as popular as it used to be, sure we are trying to encourage RP by any means and it can work with a joint effort but in the mean time, features need to be established that are welcoming to new players and give both old and new players something to do when their is no events / large server wide scale RP's going on.

Lets talk about the 'cons':
1) the monetary gap was decreased significantly with the recent economy update - millions were taken out and only a slim few still retained some money to purchase 1 'high-end' vehicle upon the reset. 

2) Optimisation, Gmod's largely at fault, not much FL can do - the steps we've taken have improved FPS yet we can only do so much

3) Updates like MESKA have tried to remove large groupings and make players interact with each other as they unlock new skills and rewards through completing challenges - again RPG elements, the first of many which will solve the issue of lack of player interaction ie sitting in discord not talking to others. This links into the 'pros' bit too - I've heard and even a year ago unique RP was still a thing in FL and again that's what made it different from other servers, the community who made FL different and unique however, it's unfortunate that recently it has decreased rapidly but as I said previously its being worked on and hopefully there will be a huge increase in RP soon but only collectively can anything be achieved.

[Nadrickk]

Use Generation's idea; The more you play as X job, the more perks/rank you get.

use V2D - the other maps are simply too big. You feel alone, even with a full server. Wether you like it or not, v2d was ALWAYS full, even when we had v2d and v33x. Why in such denial?

[Bulldogg]

Clearly what is done so far isn't working, the server is clearly dead. Adding RPG on a moneyprinter shows how far this has went (Check my suggestion for more info).
"So reverting back to the old gamemode or undoing recent changes is just an insult to those who worked effortlessly on them."

I'll use an analogy here because I feel like I lost a couple of braincells after reading that.
Assume I am an engineer that created this product, but when people used it, it did not function properly; practically speaking. My customers informed me that this product does not function properly due to this and that. Do you believe I would listen and modify > undo it, or that I would see it as an insult regardless of my time spent? Actually, you don't have to respond because you already did.
Checkmate.

[Boonan]

Clearly what is done so far isn't working, the server is clearly dead. Adding RPG on a moneyprinter shows how far this has went (Check my suggestion for more info).
"So reverting back to the old gamemode or undoing recent changes is just an insult to those who worked effortlessly on them."

I'll use an analogy here because I feel like I lost a couple of braincells after reading that.
Assume I am an engineer that created this product, but when people used it, it did not function properly; practically speaking. My customers informed me that this product does not function properly due to this and that. Do you believe I would listen and modify > undo it, or that I would see it as an insult regardless of my time spent? Actually, you don't have to respond because you already did.
Checkmate.

Difference being it does function properly? there are a few issues with contraband which has been made apparent by both the staff and members of the community and it will be altered accordingly once a healthy balance can be reached, the issue is it's one minor change that doesn't require a total revert of a adequate system which is what people are eluding to.

[ART]

Its funny how all admins protect each other. You want us to do the survey but u won't listen anyway to the community so what is the point of this?

[Bulldogg]

Clearly what is done so far isn't working, the server is clearly dead. Adding RPG on a moneyprinter shows how far this has went (Check my suggestion for more info).
"So reverting back to the old gamemode or undoing recent changes is just an insult to those who worked effortlessly on them."

I'll use an analogy here because I feel like I lost a couple of braincells after reading that.
Assume I am an engineer that created this product, but when people used it, it did not function properly; practically speaking. My customers informed me that this product does not function properly due to this and that. Do you believe I would listen and modify > undo it, or that I would see it as an insult regardless of my time spent? Actually, you don't have to respond because you already did.
Checkmate.

Difference being it does function properly? there are a few issues with contraband which has been made apparent by both the staff and members of the community and it will be altered accordingly once a healthy balance can be reached, the issue is it's one minor change that doesn't require a total revert of a adequate system which is what people are eluding to.

I'm speaking broadly, and it doesn't work correctly if you think deeply, which I hope you do. I'll give you a hint: it has something to do with time management.
You mention "minor issues", yet those minor issues sum up in the grand scheme.

But, please realize, just because a "recent change" has been implemented does not make it an insult to amend or undo it.

[TheSiphon]

I see V2D being mentioned a lot for being smaller in size, but it really isn't any smaller than the other maps. In fact, due to the map's linear layout, distances are much longer than on other maps. Walking to the furthest area on V2D (The lake) takes ages, but reaching the furthest corner on V4B1 doesn't take as long since there are various routes you can take. Plus this means that driving and pursuits are a lot less fun.


(Map comparison of V2D, V4B1, Rockford, and V5P)


(Distances compared between V2D and Ranox, which was the origin of SanRanevo)

[Bulldogg]

You are correct regarding the size, however I believe they meant more in terms of simplicity.
But I'm curious why you think police pursuits would be less fun, because I believe the contrary. Instead of going around the block for hours, you could drive about in the lakeside forests, which would certainly be more fun, or if you're stupid enough to drive into factory/industrial, then you handle it from there, or if you just want to drive around the block, you go to MTL/city. There's a little bit of everything, so I'd say it's quite inclusive.

[Boonan]

Clearly what is done so far isn't working, the server is clearly dead. Adding RPG on a moneyprinter shows how far this has went (Check my suggestion for more info).
"So reverting back to the old gamemode or undoing recent changes is just an insult to those who worked effortlessly on them."

I'll use an analogy here because I feel like I lost a couple of braincells after reading that.
Assume I am an engineer that created this product, but when people used it, it did not function properly; practically speaking. My customers informed me that this product does not function properly due to this and that. Do you believe I would listen and modify > undo it, or that I would see it as an insult regardless of my time spent? Actually, you don't have to respond because you already did.
Checkmate.

Difference being it does function properly? there are a few issues with contraband which has been made apparent by both the staff and members of the community and it will be altered accordingly once a healthy balance can be reached, the issue is it's one minor change that doesn't require a total revert of a adequate system which is what people are eluding to.

I'm speaking broadly, and it doesn't work correctly if you think deeply, which I hope you do. I'll give you a hint: it has something to do with time management.
You mention "minor issues", yet those minor issues sum up in the grand scheme.

But, please realize, just because a "recent change" has been implemented does not make it an insult to amend or undo it.

Completely reverting it back to its original state does, which is what many are stating to do, some aren't but a lot are? That was my point, it would be a waste of time, funds and the efforts of everyone who was involved. Nobody is saying it can't be changed as I stated previously, both the staff and community made it apparent that the reward for the new contra isn't great at all and I know when a healthy balance is reached it will be altered accordingly so it doesn't disrupt the rest of the dynamic economy and the future additions to it, so it then it doesn't become the one and only 'optimal' money making method. A partial issue for it is because some people will use that money method at off-peak hours, reaping the benefits from it and when everyone else goes on to do it, they actually lose money or make little profit - counters to prevent this has been drawn up upon and suggestions (they're approved now) were made by the community to give players insight to the 'optimal' money making methods.

Again I said it was a minor issue as it is, it is easily amendable and will 100% get done as many want it to be worth their time and not the laborious task it is currently.

End of the day feedback from the survey is critical and any feedback / comments even if they conflict with the ideas of some will always be taken into consideration - you've heard it countless times from Management but it's true. I for one agree with having a small map, potentially a reworked V2 if the majority of the community wants it, or another small map but a map that won't die out instantly because it was only chosen for nostalgia. I do prefer big maps but it just isn't viable in this current state, it all comes down to the needs of FL over the wants for FL, and the only way to find the results is through the community and going with the strong majority whilst making compromises to make both sides happy with the future and its changes.

[Rossi]

I see V2D being mentioned a lot for being smaller in size, but it really isn't any smaller than the other maps. In fact, due to the map's linear layout, distances are much longer than on other maps. Walking to the furthest area on V2D (The lake) takes ages, but reaching the furthest corner on V4B1 doesn't take as long since there are various routes you can take. Plus this means that driving and pursuits are a lot less fun.

I would agree that the size could be similar to others by a bit. And I would also agree with others who have said V2D is very old. However, I can't speak for everyone when I talk about maps, but the smaller scale of city life and less to do when leaving the city, makes it feel a lot smaller and RP seems to come to you a lot easier. 

When leaving the city on V2D, yes the lake is quite far away because there is no connecting road at UM, but if you think about, the genuine run ins you'd have with others on the outskirts of the city are much higher than any other maps for very simple reasons. There's no lake houses, only 2 houses total in the "Neighborhood" Nothing really immersive that would bring players to the UM or MTL other than clans and maybe criminal RP.

I'd like to make it very clear that I have seen V2D full and it was a lot of fun back then, but a change of map back to V2D maybe isn't the answer either. There's a lot of distaste for that map that even I have. 

I would love to see a change to a smaller map, or a map for the time being that would draw in more players like the Evocity series and have a custom, small map made. Imagine a map like V2D in size, but maybe more like a SouthSide map feel. By this, I mean how everything is mainly city oriented. It could be a larger city since the city is the heart of the map, and take away a lot of the outskirts. 

There are a ton of ways to go about this but the point I'm trying to make is there needs to be something discussed on this to be small enough to handle a low population, but entertaining enough to make people want to RP and not look like they're back in 2012.