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State of FL
#11
(08-05-2022, 11:49 PM)Pollux Wrote:
(08-05-2022, 11:33 PM)Link Wrote: I don't want to be that guy - positivity can go a long way - but I just want to quickly share some thoughts off the top of my head.

1. We had a great start with the economy rescale and accompanying updates, such as the new vehicles. Super good way of getting old players on. (Which was needed to boost our server score, and player count)
2. But descaling the economy and resetting vehicles won't get people to stay for the long haul, neither will updates such as changing the chat box.
3. However, giving players ways to invest in the game mode, such as updates to clans, perhaps passive income systems; rewarding things to manage over a long time; would provide the best opportunity to elongate that initial momentum, and give people something new to play for. However, the impact of introducing these systems is lessened once people have stopped checking in from the initial hype.
4. The main focus of FL should be getting new people in and retaining them. They're the future of the community, and they don't have the problem of burnout from 1000s of hours of playing. But, if the server's empty from a lack of engaged veterans, there's no social proof that FL's worth playing on, and, obviously, there's no one to play with.

A bit less of a structured answer than usual, but I think if we have any chance of reviving this thing now, it'll have to be a community effort.

FL was never designed for features to keep people into it. Updates like what we did recently have always been aimed at giving a kickstart on initial players as with servers like ours It's basically just players bring players. Very few people will join if they know the server won't get many on later or if there's not many on when they check. FL has always been made around players giving eachother stuff to do and features more supplementing that. We've sometimes seen random boosts even when we change nothing which sorta proves that.

There's a ton of stuff that can be attributed to our recent "death", but one thing that's clear to us is the core identity of the gamemode is no longer sustainable. We have some idea of what we can change which will be making FL more RPG like with progression, skills and quests. It's will be a massive change to FL but it's very clear it's neccesary. We essentially have the choice of sticking to FLs core identity and dying or adapting to how gmod has changed over the years.


Just to drop here a few ideas for you guys in case (if you want to put something for RPG like):

-> This could look like indeed something with levels and time played/or with conditions



Policeman
[5] = GetTranslation("Trainee peacekeeper"), -- Service weapon (Around 1h of game time before reaching this rank)
[20] = GetTranslation("Titular Peacekeeper"), -- Unlock Police car
[40] = GetTranslation("Lead Peacekeeper"), -- Opportunity to become Police Sergeant
[50] = GetTranslation("Anti-Crime Squad"), -- Unlock SRU (Why not ?? Ideas Cheese)
[70] = GetTranslation("Brigadier"), -- Access to database
[120] = GetTranslation("Brigadier Chief"), -- Unlocks Tazer
[200] = GetTranslation("Brigadier Chief Major") -- Heavy weaponry access (yeahh)
[400] = GetTranslation("Brigadier Chief Major") -- LEVEL MAX (more suggestion opens)


Doctor
[5] = GetTranslation("Doctor"), -- Unlock defibrillator
[15] = GetTranslation("Paramedic"), -- Unlock Ambulance
[30] = GetTranslation("Primary doctor"), -- Salary + 10
[50] = GetTranslation("Chief Medical Officer"), -- Receive distress signals
[70] = GetTranslation("Chief Medical Officer Major"), -- Better healing and higher chance of revival
[120] = GetTranslation("General Physician") -- Salary + 30


Taxi
[10] = GetTranslation("Trainee driver"), -- Race price ++
[50] = GetTranslation("Professional Driver"), -- Faster vehicle
[100] = GetTranslation("Uber Driver") -- Ability to order a taxi with a mobile phone (priority requests)


Firefighter
[10] = GetTranslation("Volunteer firefighter"), -- Access to the firetruck
[30] = GetTranslation("Firefighter"), -- Salary ++
[50] = GetTranslation("Corporal Firefighter"), -- Ability to provide basic healing
[100] = GetTranslation("Corporal-Chief Firefighter"), -- Receive distress signals
[200] = GetTranslation("Fire Sergeant"), -- Salary + 30


Chef
[10] = GetTranslation("Kitchen clerk"), -- Unlock basic/cheap food to produce in the game (i don't know, you can decide)
[30] = GetTranslation("Apprentice cook"), -- Unlocks medium quality food to produce in the game (to be decided)
[50] = GetTranslation("Cook"), -- Higher quality and therefore healthier cooking
[100] = GetTranslation("Head Chef"), -- I don't know
[200] = GetTranslation("Starred Chef"), -- I don't know

Mechanic

[10] = GetTranslation("Mechanic Apprentice"), -- Reduced repair costs
[50] = GetTranslation("Mechanic"), -- Quick repair
[100] = GetTranslation("Professional Mechanic"), -- No repair cost
[Image: JmCzDqB.png]
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#12
(08-06-2022, 04:02 PM)Generation Wrote:
(08-05-2022, 11:49 PM)Pollux Wrote:
(08-05-2022, 11:33 PM)Link Wrote: I don't want to be that guy - positivity can go a long way - but I just want to quickly share some thoughts off the top of my head.

1. We had a great start with the economy rescale and accompanying updates, such as the new vehicles. Super good way of getting old players on. (Which was needed to boost our server score, and player count)
2. But descaling the economy and resetting vehicles won't get people to stay for the long haul, neither will updates such as changing the chat box.
3. However, giving players ways to invest in the game mode, such as updates to clans, perhaps passive income systems; rewarding things to manage over a long time; would provide the best opportunity to elongate that initial momentum, and give people something new to play for. However, the impact of introducing these systems is lessened once people have stopped checking in from the initial hype.
4. The main focus of FL should be getting new people in and retaining them. They're the future of the community, and they don't have the problem of burnout from 1000s of hours of playing. But, if the server's empty from a lack of engaged veterans, there's no social proof that FL's worth playing on, and, obviously, there's no one to play with.

A bit less of a structured answer than usual, but I think if we have any chance of reviving this thing now, it'll have to be a community effort.

FL was never designed for features to keep people into it. Updates like what we did recently have always been aimed at giving a kickstart on initial players as with servers like ours It's basically just players bring players. Very few people will join if they know the server won't get many on later or if there's not many on when they check. FL has always been made around players giving eachother stuff to do and features more supplementing that. We've sometimes seen random boosts even when we change nothing which sorta proves that.

There's a ton of stuff that can be attributed to our recent "death", but one thing that's clear to us is the core identity of the gamemode is no longer sustainable. We have some idea of what we can change which will be making FL more RPG like with progression, skills and quests. It's will be a massive change to FL but it's very clear it's neccesary. We essentially have the choice of sticking to FLs core identity and dying or adapting to how gmod has changed over the years.


Just to drop here a few ideas for you guys in case (if you want to put something for RPG like):

-> This could look like indeed something with levels and time played/or with conditions



Policeman
[5] = GetTranslation("Trainee peacekeeper"), -- Service weapon (Around 1h of game time before reaching this rank)
[20] = GetTranslation("Titular Peacekeeper"), -- Unlock Police car
[40] = GetTranslation("Lead Peacekeeper"), -- Opportunity to become Police Sergeant
[50] = GetTranslation("Anti-Crime Squad"), -- Unlock SRU (Why not ?? Ideas Cheese)
[70] = GetTranslation("Brigadier"), -- Access to database
[120] = GetTranslation("Brigadier Chief"), -- Unlocks Tazer
[200] = GetTranslation("Brigadier Chief Major") -- Heavy weaponry access (yeahh)
[400] = GetTranslation("Brigadier Chief Major") -- LEVEL MAX (more suggestion opens)


Doctor
[5] = GetTranslation("Doctor"), -- Unlock defibrillator
[15] = GetTranslation("Paramedic"), -- Unlock Ambulance
[30] = GetTranslation("Primary doctor"), -- Salary + 10
[50] = GetTranslation("Chief Medical Officer"), -- Receive distress signals
[70] = GetTranslation("Chief Medical Officer Major"), -- Better healing and higher chance of revival
[120] = GetTranslation("General Physician") -- Salary + 30


Taxi
[10] = GetTranslation("Trainee driver"), -- Race price ++
[50] = GetTranslation("Professional Driver"), -- Faster vehicle
[100] = GetTranslation("Uber Driver") -- Ability to order a taxi with a mobile phone (priority requests)


Firefighter
[10] = GetTranslation("Volunteer firefighter"), -- Access to the firetruck
[30] = GetTranslation("Firefighter"), -- Salary ++
[50] = GetTranslation("Corporal Firefighter"), -- Ability to provide basic healing
[100] = GetTranslation("Corporal-Chief Firefighter"), -- Receive distress signals
[200] = GetTranslation("Fire Sergeant"), -- Salary + 30


Chef
[10] = GetTranslation("Kitchen clerk"), -- Unlock basic/cheap food to produce in the game (i don't know, you can decide)
[30] = GetTranslation("Apprentice cook"), -- Unlocks medium quality food to produce in the game (to be decided)
[50] = GetTranslation("Cook"), -- Higher quality and therefore healthier cooking
[100] = GetTranslation("Head Chef"), -- I don't know
[200] = GetTranslation("Starred Chef"), -- I don't know

Mechanic

[10] = GetTranslation("Mechanic Apprentice"), -- Reduced repair costs
[50] = GetTranslation("Mechanic"), -- Quick repair
[100] = GetTranslation("Professional Mechanic"), -- No repair cost

what
[Image: 9b8jk2P.png]
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#13
(08-06-2022, 04:02 PM)Generation Wrote:
(08-05-2022, 11:49 PM)Pollux Wrote:
(08-05-2022, 11:33 PM)Link Wrote: I don't want to be that guy - positivity can go a long way - but I just want to quickly share some thoughts off the top of my head.

1. We had a great start with the economy rescale and accompanying updates, such as the new vehicles. Super good way of getting old players on. (Which was needed to boost our server score, and player count)
2. But descaling the economy and resetting vehicles won't get people to stay for the long haul, neither will updates such as changing the chat box.
3. However, giving players ways to invest in the game mode, such as updates to clans, perhaps passive income systems; rewarding things to manage over a long time; would provide the best opportunity to elongate that initial momentum, and give people something new to play for. However, the impact of introducing these systems is lessened once people have stopped checking in from the initial hype.
4. The main focus of FL should be getting new people in and retaining them. They're the future of the community, and they don't have the problem of burnout from 1000s of hours of playing. But, if the server's empty from a lack of engaged veterans, there's no social proof that FL's worth playing on, and, obviously, there's no one to play with.

A bit less of a structured answer than usual, but I think if we have any chance of reviving this thing now, it'll have to be a community effort.

FL was never designed for features to keep people into it. Updates like what we did recently have always been aimed at giving a kickstart on initial players as with servers like ours It's basically just players bring players. Very few people will join if they know the server won't get many on later or if there's not many on when they check. FL has always been made around players giving eachother stuff to do and features more supplementing that. We've sometimes seen random boosts even when we change nothing which sorta proves that.

There's a ton of stuff that can be attributed to our recent "death", but one thing that's clear to us is the core identity of the gamemode is no longer sustainable. We have some idea of what we can change which will be making FL more RPG like with progression, skills and quests. It's will be a massive change to FL but it's very clear it's neccesary. We essentially have the choice of sticking to FLs core identity and dying or adapting to how gmod has changed over the years.


Just to drop here a few ideas for you guys in case (if you want to put something for RPG like):

-> This could look like indeed something with levels and time played/or with conditions



Policeman
[5] = GetTranslation("Trainee peacekeeper"), -- Service weapon (Around 1h of game time before reaching this rank)
[20] = GetTranslation("Titular Peacekeeper"), -- Unlock Police car
[40] = GetTranslation("Lead Peacekeeper"), -- Opportunity to become Police Sergeant
[50] = GetTranslation("Anti-Crime Squad"), -- Unlock SRU (Why not ?? Ideas Cheese)
[70] = GetTranslation("Brigadier"), -- Access to database
[120] = GetTranslation("Brigadier Chief"), -- Unlocks Tazer
[200] = GetTranslation("Brigadier Chief Major") -- Heavy weaponry access (yeahh)
[400] = GetTranslation("Brigadier Chief Major") -- LEVEL MAX (more suggestion opens)


Doctor
[5] = GetTranslation("Doctor"), -- Unlock defibrillator
[15] = GetTranslation("Paramedic"), -- Unlock Ambulance
[30] = GetTranslation("Primary doctor"), -- Salary + 10
[50] = GetTranslation("Chief Medical Officer"), -- Receive distress signals
[70] = GetTranslation("Chief Medical Officer Major"), -- Better healing and higher chance of revival
[120] = GetTranslation("General Physician") -- Salary + 30


Taxi
[10] = GetTranslation("Trainee driver"), -- Race price ++
[50] = GetTranslation("Professional Driver"), -- Faster vehicle
[100] = GetTranslation("Uber Driver") -- Ability to order a taxi with a mobile phone (priority requests)


Firefighter
[10] = GetTranslation("Volunteer firefighter"), -- Access to the firetruck
[30] = GetTranslation("Firefighter"), -- Salary ++
[50] = GetTranslation("Corporal Firefighter"), -- Ability to provide basic healing
[100] = GetTranslation("Corporal-Chief Firefighter"), -- Receive distress signals
[200] = GetTranslation("Fire Sergeant"), -- Salary + 30


Chef
[10] = GetTranslation("Kitchen clerk"), -- Unlock basic/cheap food to produce in the game (i don't know, you can decide)
[30] = GetTranslation("Apprentice cook"), -- Unlocks medium quality food to produce in the game (to be decided)
[50] = GetTranslation("Cook"), -- Higher quality and therefore healthier cooking
[100] = GetTranslation("Head Chef"), -- I don't know
[200] = GetTranslation("Starred Chef"), -- I don't know

Mechanic

[10] = GetTranslation("Mechanic Apprentice"), -- Reduced repair costs
[50] = GetTranslation("Mechanic"), -- Quick repair
[100] = GetTranslation("Professional Mechanic"), -- No repair cost
oh yes la baguette 
[Image: 6evbjQw.png]
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#14
(08-05-2022, 11:33 PM)Link Wrote: 4. The main focus of FL should be getting new people in and retaining them. They're the future of the community, and they don't have the problem of burnout from 1000s of hours of playing. But, if the server's empty from a lack of engaged veterans, there's no social proof that FL's worth playing on, and, obviously, there's no one to play with.

This. This is the problem that has yet to be fixed and honestly barely attempted. Even when the server was getting populated at the beginning of this new management experiment the server still felt empty. Secluded groupings of players and no open player interaction. Why would players want to stay?

 Management team kept saying divey was holding them back in fixing the server. Still waiting to see it.
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#15
(08-06-2022, 10:58 AM)Bulldogg Wrote: Pollux I see your point about Fearless dying out and your desire to take action.
But you fail and completely misunderstand the assignment here; it's not about attempting to repair the gamemode; it's a community effort, as Link stated out. With that said, you must adapt to the demands of the community, rather than your own subjective beliefs within management.
Consider the following: what is FL without its key/core members?
Would you lose a majority of your core members if you were to delete/drastically change the gamemode?
Would changing the gamemode without getting a vote from the community be a good idea?

I personally joined Fearless now as for the same reasons that I joined back in the day. Are you about to change Fearless into some quest-based > progression game, I think WoW would be the option then? You may start from scratch, loose all of your loyal/core members, and focus on establishing a "semi" new community. Good luck.

I was a bit vague and many are misunderstanding what I said so I'll go into more detail. We're planning on adding more RPG elements to our existing gamemode. Our features which already involve progression (such as Farming) have done extremely well compared to others, so we're looking to extend that system to other methods. An example could be weed, where similar to farming we add in progression and things/skills you unlock the more you do it. Our recent fishing port is another good example of how we want jobs and money-making methods to be, with clear progression and unlocks from doing it.

Quests would be aimed at giving newer players something to immediately do rather than being lost, for example one could be going paramedic and reviving 5 people. The aim of this system would be to make the first few hours less overwhelming and add some direction, I don't see it adding much value to older players though.

The current gamemode only works well when there's 40+ people online, below that it becomes boring as so many things rely on other players to be fun (such as cop, which is the most popular job). This makes it unsustainable, as a dip below that for even a few days can end up killing it off as people won't join on low playercounts if they feel like not many will join after. Our aim is to add in more to do when not many are on by having a better progression system you can work on even if you're alone. I know the EC team is also working hard in planning a few cool events in the meantime to try kickstart player population again, similar to how the update we had a month ago did.

We're also planning on doing another survey, this is long overdue but it should hopefully be soon. The past month has been an extremely busy time for a lot of us, with myself being away for the majority of it and other members of management being busy with work. Hopefully we can get the ball rolling again similar to what we did a month ago, because we really were doing quite well in terms of motivation within the team and activity.
Pollux
Fearless Management
bork
__________________________________________________________________
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#16
(08-07-2022, 04:41 AM)Fultz Wrote:
(08-05-2022, 11:33 PM)Link Wrote: 4. The main focus of FL should be getting new people in and retaining them. They're the future of the community, and they don't have the problem of burnout from 1000s of hours of playing. But, if the server's empty from a lack of engaged veterans, there's no social proof that FL's worth playing on, and, obviously, there's no one to play with.

This. This is the problem that has yet to be fixed and honestly barely attempted. Even when the server was getting populated at the beginning of this new management experiment the server still felt empty. Secluded groupings of players and no open player interaction. Why would players want to stay?

 Management team kept saying divey was holding them back in fixing the server. Still waiting to see it.

Everyone being in their own social groups is a big problem and something we did identify, the issue is it's extremely hard to fix as it's an entire attitude shift rather than a simple change. A good example is how in most nexus raids you have big groups of people raiding while being completely silent due to them talking on discord, to a new player it's almost impossible to join in as they're not going to communicate with you at all. We've already internally clamped down on metagaming within the team, encouraging those in discord together to instead mute and talk in-game and we did start to see it work. It's extremely difficult to enforce to everyone though and it's more going to be something that changes over time. We do generally plan on being more strict when it comes to metagaming, as it is part of the issue. It'll be a community effort in the end to be more welcoming towards new players and get out of their social groups a bit.

We're also looking at contracting external developers to work on features to make things a bit quicker, this is something that wasn't possible before as it really needs the owner to be a developer to work correctly. We're already reviewing people who've shown interest and have given us portfolios, so it's far along.
Pollux
Fearless Management
bork
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#17
(08-06-2022, 09:24 AM)Haarek Wrote: Ehm, yes it was? Have you ever considered RP points, clothing, cars, money, ranks?

Clothing, which could be bought instantly with the money from the donator required to wear it.
Ranks, which, unless you were in a clique, were often impossible to get, and also aren't designed to retain players.

RPP, sure
Money and Cars (kinda one in the same), sure.

However, I don't think this is what Pollux is referring to, rather, features like Chess / Farming / Fishing, which gave something else to achieve and progress towards, which ends up being different to just "spam weed, make money", ya know?


(08-05-2022, 11:33 PM)Link Wrote: 3. However, giving players ways to invest in the game mode, such as updates to clans, perhaps passive income systems; rewarding things to manage over a long time; would provide the best opportunity to elongate that initial momentum, and give people something new to play for. However, the impact of introducing these systems is lessened once people have stopped checking in from the initial hype.
Absolutely, which is what the new / updated skills are aiming for.

(08-05-2022, 11:33 PM)Link Wrote: 4. The main focus of FL should be getting new people in and retaining them. They're the future of the community, and they don't have the problem of burnout from 1000s of hours of playing. But, if the server's empty from a lack of engaged veterans, there's no social proof that FL's worth playing on, and, obviously, there's no one to play with.
Again, aye, new players need to be coming on, finding stuff to do, a community to interact with and enjoy, but I think people have gone over that later in this thread.


(08-05-2022, 11:57 PM)Jan Wrote: Here we are again, people coming in with suggestions and then other people replying why they don’t agree, sounds like FL under Divey again.

Disagreement isn't neccessary a bad thing.
Differences in opinion are something which should be worked on together, and understanding developed over time, rather than just seeing that people disagree so they must be wrong.

(08-06-2022, 12:33 AM)Nadrickk Wrote:
(08-05-2022, 11:57 PM)Jan Wrote: Here we are again, people coming in with suggestions and then other people replying why they don’t agree, sounds like FL under Divey again.

Focus on new players or try an entire new game, the community was built on Gmod but it was never supposed to stay there.

That's what happends when FL suddenly gets a boost and the owner gets donations revenue, when all the $$ tick in, they go straight for the yacht&dip-tactic Tounge

I don't see how people being active, having discussions and differences of opinion equates to "yacht & dip".
Surely, if they were dipping, they wouldn't respond?

(08-06-2022, 10:58 AM)Bulldogg Wrote: Are you about to change Fearless into some quest-based > progression game, I think WoW would be the option then?

No.
If we were to do something like this, we'd be adding some RPG elements, to a RP core, like Monolith.
Yours
Doctor Internet;

Developer, Systems Operator,
Data Protection Officer, Business Advisor,
Server Administrator, Community Moderator
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#18
(08-05-2022, 11:33 PM)Link Wrote: I don't want to be that guy - positivity can go a long way - but I just want to quickly share some thoughts off the top of my head.

1. We had a great start with the economy rescale and accompanying updates, such as the new vehicles. Super good way of getting old players on. (Which was needed to boost our server score, and player count)
2. But descaling the economy and resetting vehicles won't get people to stay for the long haul, neither will updates such as changing the chat box.
3. However, giving players ways to invest in the game mode, such as updates to clans, perhaps passive income systems; rewarding things to manage over a long time; would provide the best opportunity to elongate that initial momentum, and give people something new to play for. However, the impact of introducing these systems is lessened once people have stopped checking in from the initial hype.
4. The main focus of FL should be getting new people in and retaining them. They're the future of the community, and they don't have the problem of burnout from 1000s of hours of playing. But, if the server's empty from a lack of engaged veterans, there's no social proof that FL's worth playing on, and, obviously, there's no one to play with.

A bit less of a structured answer than usual, but I think if we have any chance of reviving this thing now, it'll have to be a community effort.

I agree with every point here. Have to create systems that increase player buy-in and investment (in time), be it clans, levelling, etc. Have to make the gamemode more easily understandable and accessible for new players, provide interactive guidance when people first join to understand and learn the mechanics of the gamemode, and also we have to focus on recruitment of new players, be it via advertisement, improving our ranking/positioning on server browser, word of mouth, etc.. Got some ideas about how to do this that we will implement, and we will shortly release a survey to get general opinions on features to be improved in the gamemode so we can prioritise this. 

It's evident we need new people, that has to be a priority. Unfortunately we dropped the ball after the first release, due to burnout within the team and general life getting in the way of things. We're picking up pieces again now, going to look both internally and externally development wise, and need to work on a more streamlined internal way of boosting events, and general roleplay (again, clans, etc.). 

I don't want to be dismissive of any ideas, and will keep an eye on this thread, hopefully providing some more structured responses. Everyone has the right motives, but different trains of thought as to how we achieve success- let's try and keep it civil, and get somewhere good. Nothing is off the table, but we should keep in mind that the more sustainable approach is to prioritise new player recruitment over the long term.
Regards,
Connnnnnnn

Consider giving me a rep point here.

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