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Academy - Academy - 04-05-2021

Steam Name: Academy

SteamID: STEAM_0:1:127900509

BanID: 84564

Ban Reason
Discrimination

Staff Member: Ratatoskrr

Involved users
Myself, cherno and i believe it was jay

Why should you be unbanned?
So Jay went off to speak with the seargant in german, and we made the remark (in character) that he was speaking "nazi". How is that discrimination? It was literally in character. I'd also like to add that I find it odd that even though all involved users were online at the time of our ban, Ratatoskrr didn't care enough to initiate a sit, to let us explain our side of the story.

Also, this UBR is for both Cherno and me. Since we were both banned for the same thing.


RE: Academy - Ratatoskrr - 04-05-2021

Hello Academy and Cherno. I appreciate you taking the time to create this UBR,

The reason for your ban was a breach of rule 1.7.
[Image: wf9FyRI.png]

The infringement is to do with 'Requiring Consent from all members of the RP'. I have reason to believe that you didn't say he was speaking 'nazi' IC as you said it in passing and Jay was rather distressed when talking to me about the situation. If there's anything here that I have missed, feel free to correct me on it.

Thanks,
Rat.


RE: Academy - Academy - 04-05-2021

(04-05-2021, 08:23 PM)Ratatoskrr Wrote: Hello Academy and Cherno. I appreciate you taking the time to create this UBR,

The reason for your ban was a breach of rule 1.7.
[Image: wf9FyRI.png]

The infringement is to do with 'Requiring Consent from all members of the RP'. I have reason to believe that you didn't say he was speaking 'nazi' IC as you said it in passing and Jay was rather distressed when talking to me about the situation. If there's anything here that I have missed, feel free to correct me on it.

Thanks,
Rat.

Let me first address the issues with the rule you quoted.

In order to act on the server, you have to risk being discriminatory. This is seen when arresting people, demoting people, hostaging people. All these scenarious risks the users involved feeling "discriminated". Using this rule, I can run to an admin when a police officer calls me "a dirty thief" after stealing a car, because I felt discriminated by his words. Would it constitute a 24h ban for the officer?

I'd also like to add that Jay was rather distressed even before this incident. I believe it had to do with him thinking that his arrest was unlawful. I also believe that he was trying to find something to report us on, and as soon as he heard us utter those words in which the report is based on, he found his opportunity.

Now. I did say it in character, and there is no evidence that suggests otherwise. Prior to it, we had had a dispute with Jay and he had run off to the sergeant complaining about us in a different language. As a joke, we told each other that "they were speaking nazi". It was all part of the roleplay and we certainly did not expect any party to feel discriminated. If one feels discriminated by such speech, including my above example scenarious, one should consider not exposing oneself to such scenarious (i.e. joining a roleplay server).


RE: Academy - Ratatoskrr - 04-06-2021

Academy,

Based on the evidence provided by Jay and what he said to me, I am in my right mind to believe that Jay did not consent to the discriminatory language used nor did you have an intricate role play reason to tell him to ‘stop speaking nazi’.


RE: Academy - Academy - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 06:19 AM)Ratatoskrr Wrote: Academy,

Based on the evidence provided by Jay and what he said to me, I am in my right mind to believe that Jay did not consent to the discriminatory language used nor did you have an intricate role play reason to tell him to ‘stop speaking nazi’.

i’ve already pointed out that it was never my intention to be discriminatory. You’d have known this if you would have intiated a sit instead of applying a harsh punishment.

About the punishment, I am very new to the server. I have never received a punishment before and have barely any hours. Why would you think that a 7 day ban would be appropriate in this situation? Is this how you treat new players? If it has taught me anything, it's that I can claim that I was discriminated in any given situation, regardless of the intent. I’ll keep this in mind and I expect that everyone I report for discrimination, regardless if it is intentional or not, receives a 7 day ban aswell.


RE: Academy - Ratatoskrr - 04-07-2021

(04-06-2021, 06:58 AM)Academy Wrote:
(04-06-2021, 06:19 AM)Ratatoskrr Wrote: Academy,

Based on the evidence provided by Jay and what he said to me, I am in my right mind to believe that Jay did not consent to the discriminatory language used nor did you have an intricate role play reason to tell him to ‘stop speaking nazi’.

i’ve already pointed out that it was never my intention to be discriminatory. You’d have known this if you would have intiated a sit instead of applying a harsh punishment.

About the punishment, I am very new to the server. I have never received a punishment before and have barely any hours. Why would you think that a 7 day ban would be appropriate in this situation? Is this how you treat new players? If it has taught me anything, it's that I can claim that I was discriminated in any given situation, regardless of the intent. I’ll keep this in mind and I expect that everyone I report for discrimination, regardless if it is intentional or not, receives a 7 day ban aswell.

I think we're ignoring the severity of what you said to Jay. You stood at the door, listening in on both him and Rocky having a conversation in German before telling them to 'stop speaking nazi'. Using the term 'Nazi' is incredibly different to calling somebody 'a dirty thief' therefore I am struggling to comprehend how you feel like you should be unbanned given the provocative nature of what you said.

Any further questions, feel free to let me know.


RE: Academy - Academy - 04-07-2021

(04-07-2021, 02:43 AM)Ratatoskrr Wrote:
(04-06-2021, 06:58 AM)Academy Wrote:
(04-06-2021, 06:19 AM)Ratatoskrr Wrote: Academy,

Based on the evidence provided by Jay and what he said to me, I am in my right mind to believe that Jay did not consent to the discriminatory language used nor did you have an intricate role play reason to tell him to ‘stop speaking nazi’.

i’ve already pointed out that it was never my intention to be discriminatory. You’d have known this if you would have intiated a sit instead of applying a harsh punishment.

About the punishment, I am very new to the server. I have never received a punishment before and have barely any hours. Why would you think that a 7 day ban would be appropriate in this situation? Is this how you treat new players? If it has taught me anything, it's that I can claim that I was discriminated in any given situation, regardless of the intent. I’ll keep this in mind and I expect that everyone I report for discrimination, regardless if it is intentional or not, receives a 7 day ban aswell.

I think we're ignoring the severity of what you said to Jay. You stood at the door, listening in on both him and Rocky having a conversation in German before telling them to 'stop speaking nazi'. Using the term 'Nazi' is incredibly different to calling somebody 'a dirty thief' therefore I am struggling to comprehend how you feel like you should be unbanned given the provocative nature of what you said.

Any further questions, feel free to let me know.

Who are you to deem what is more discriminatory?

Also, I still do not see how, not calling someone a nazi, but jokingly asking someone to stop speaking nazi, would warrant a 7 day ban for a completely new user who is still trying to learn the rules and how the server works. It gives me a horrendous view of the server, that small petty things can get you weeks off the server. It makes me reevaluate if it's worth to getting into this community and becoming a part of it, a GMod community that treats new players as harshly as this have I never witnessed before.


RE: Academy - Cherno - 04-07-2021

(04-07-2021, 02:43 AM)Ratatoskrr Wrote:
(04-06-2021, 06:58 AM)Academy Wrote:
(04-06-2021, 06:19 AM)Ratatoskrr Wrote: Academy,

Based on the evidence provided by Jay and what he said to me, I am in my right mind to believe that Jay did not consent to the discriminatory language used nor did you have an intricate role play reason to tell him to ‘stop speaking nazi’.

i’ve already pointed out that it was never my intention to be discriminatory. You’d have known this if you would have intiated a sit instead of applying a harsh punishment.

About the punishment, I am very new to the server. I have never received a punishment before and have barely any hours. Why would you think that a 7 day ban would be appropriate in this situation? Is this how you treat new players? If it has taught me anything, it's that I can claim that I was discriminated in any given situation, regardless of the intent. I’ll keep this in mind and I expect that everyone I report for discrimination, regardless if it is intentional or not, receives a 7 day ban aswell.

I think we're ignoring the severity of what you said to Jay. You stood at the door, listening in on both him and Rocky having a conversation in German before telling them to 'stop speaking nazi'. Using the term 'Nazi' is incredibly different to calling somebody 'a dirty thief' therefore I am struggling to comprehend how you feel like you should be unbanned given the provocative nature of what you said.

Any further questions, feel free to let me know.

Yeah, here's a question. How can you claim that an off the cuff remark like that warrants a 7-day ban? Not to mention that all this outrage at the word nazi is ridiculous. Jay was not even targeted personally and this ban shows clear favoritism. Rest assured that I will from now on report anyone that is rude to me on the basis of the way I speak or what language I randomly start speaking in, and this 7 day ban will be the precedent. If the german language would like to make a player report, then it can go ahead, but no person or group should get this butthurt by that statement in the context in which it was said.


RE: Academy - Ratatoskrr - 04-07-2021

(04-07-2021, 07:11 AM)Cherno Wrote: Yeah, here's a question. How can you claim that an off the cuff remark like that warrants a 7-day ban? Not to mention that all this outrage at the word nazi is ridiculous. Jay was not even targeted personally and this ban shows clear favoritism.

I am by no means showing any favouritism towards Jay. You know that he's German and you still decided to follow him and called his first language 'nazi', It doesnt take a history major to work out what's wrong with that.

(04-07-2021, 07:04 AM)Academy Wrote: Who are you to deem what is more discriminatory?

It doesn't take a mastermind to realise that calling someone a nazi is more discriminatory than calling someone a dirty thief therefore I see no reason for your punishments to be removed or shortened as you both knew what you were doing when you used the xenophobic slur.


RE: Academy - Cherno - 04-07-2021

(04-07-2021, 04:07 PM)Ratatoskrr Wrote:
(04-07-2021, 07:11 AM)Cherno Wrote: Yeah, here's a question. How can you claim that an off the cuff remark like that warrants a 7-day ban? Not to mention that all this outrage at the word nazi is ridiculous. Jay was not even targeted personally and this ban shows clear favoritism.

I am by no means showing any favouritism towards Jay. You know that he's German and you still decided to follow him and called his first language 'nazi', It doesnt take a history major to work out what's wrong with that.

(04-07-2021, 07:04 AM)Academy Wrote: Who are you to deem what is more discriminatory?

It doesn't take a mastermind to realise that calling someone a nazi is more discriminatory than calling someone a dirty thief therefore I see no reason for your punishments to be removed or shortened as you both knew what you were doing when you used the xenophobic slur.

"You know that he's German and you still decided to follow him"
None of that is true

"calling someone a nazi"
Another lie, he was never called a nazi

"you used the xenophobic slur"
topkek, another lie, unless you actually stand by the statement that nazi is both xenophobic and a slur. 

You also keep using the word "discriminatory", which is very disingenuous as what was said, while rude, cannot be compared to actual discrimination. Also, nobody was discriminated against, unless you want to claim that the german language is a person, and even then since no action was actually taken it is a bit far fetched.

Good to know that I can report anyone that comments on my speech and get them banned for a week in the future though. Nice precedent you're setting here.